Is the Redbox Rogue All Cocked Up?

Jools

First Post

• Aug 24, 2010

• #1

First let say that I'm all for the essentials and plan to pick them up and use them myself. I am wondering however: is the Redbox rogue all cocked up? This post here shows a list of the Redbox rogue's at will powers and what they do. Now whats that I hear you say, the new Essentials rogue doesn't use at wills, it instead relies on melee basic attacks and movement action based rogue "tricks"? Thats right, as you've no doubt all already seen here.

So what do you think, does the Redbox contain some early version of the Essentials rogue, a snapshot of what it looked like before it was finished? Is there going to be a disconnect for Essential rogue playing players who start with the Redbox and move on to further Essentials products?

 

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DonAdam

Explorer

• Aug 24, 2010

• #2

I've noticed and worry about this too. It's possible that there are two different rogue builds that operate differently, and only one of them is in the Red Box. But I suspect the Red Box will be substantially out of sync with Heroes of the Something Something Dark Side (I can never remember the names of the PC books... they're terrible).

Incidentally, I did some Delves at Gencon this year and the characters were Essentials. They seemed to be a weird mix of what looks to be the Red Box and the later rules. The wizard's magic missile targeted 1 or 2 creatures, but the rogue used tricks and melee basic attacks.

 

M

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer

• Aug 24, 2010

• #3

I'm not sure what you mean. There are 2 builds for each of the classes in The Heroes of the Fallen Lands book. Only one of each of those builds can be made using the Red Box. So, yes, there are 2 Rogues, each with different powers.

 

DonAdam

Explorer

• Aug 24, 2010

• #4

The question he's asking is whether one Rogue build uses At-Will attack powers and the other uses At-Will move powers ("tricks") with melee basic attacks. If they both use tricks then the Red Box rogue is not the final rogue. But it's possible the two builds diverge more radically.

 

M

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer

• Aug 24, 2010

• #5

They almost definitely are that different. Part of the point of Essentials is to show how different classes can diverge from the default formula. The two fighter builds aren't even the same role. One fighter is a Defender and the other is a Striker.

 

Jools

First Post

• Aug 24, 2010

• #6

Majoru Oakheart said:

I'm not sure what you mean. There are 2 builds for each of the classes in The Heroes of the Fallen Lands book. Only one of each of those builds can be made using the Red Box. So, yes, there are 2 Rogues, each with different powers.

Click to expand...

The Essentials rogue preview linked above has a heading for "The Essentials Rogue" and details information about the Essentials rogue in general before going on to preview some of the details of the "thief" build. You'll notice the quote:

"As a rogue, you make most of your attacks using basic attacks. Some classes rely primarily on class-specific attack powers, whereas you typically make basic attacks enhanced by your rogue tricks and other class features and powers."

This is in the part describing the Essentials rogue in general not the part detailing info about the thief build specifically.

 

Last edited: Aug 24, 2010

D

drothgery

First Post

• Aug 24, 2010

• #7

Majoru Oakheart said:

I'm not sure what you mean. There are 2 builds for each of the classes in The Heroes of the Fallen Lands book. Only one of each of those builds can be made using the Red Box. So, yes, there are 2 Rogues, each with different powers.

Click to expand...

Are there? We only got previews for two fighter builds, but only one build each for wizard, cleric, and rogue.

 

erf_beto

First Post

• Aug 24, 2010

• #8

I also got the impression that the only essential class with two builds is the fighter (knight and slayer). The others have just one (mage, warpriest and thief).

Which is a sad, IMO.

 

ExploderWizard

Hero

• Aug 24, 2010

• #9

erf_beto said:

I also got the impression that the only essential class with two builds is the fighter (knight and slayer). The others have just one (mage, warpriest and thief).

Which is a sad, IMO.

Click to expand...

I believe all essentials classes will have at least 2 builds, they only previewed the other build for the fighter. The actual redbox only has one build per class including fighter-the slayer. The other builds will appear in the heroes books.

 

M

mneme

Explorer

• Aug 24, 2010

• #10

Actually, I see no reason that red box needs to have at will attacks for the rogue based on that description:

I mean, deft strike -could- be the ph1 deft strike. Or...

Bump and Run; At-Will utility 1, stance, minor action: When you make a melee basic attack, you may slide the target 1 square and then move up to half your speed.

Deft Strike; At-Will utility 1, stance, minor action, before making a basic attack, you may move up to 2 squares.

Defensive Strike; At-Will utility stance 1, +1 to all defenses

Acrobatic Maneuver; Utility At-Will Move Action, move 1+STR mod, gain +4 to all defenses on this move, can move through enemy-occupied spaces.

Without actually seeing the Red Box, we don't really know whether they've gone with a stanced thief or an at-will using one.