Unboxing the DM's Kit

MrMyth · Aug 31, 2010

TikkchikFenTikktikk said:
The tokens are thin and monster specific, the DM screen is thin, the DM Book is softcover and digest sized.

I'm also not a fan of poster maps (too specific and 5' chairs and 15' tables, etc., are ridiculous) and prefer dungeon tiles. But that's a matter of taste.

You still can't play the game with just this box.

So yeah, I think it's overpriced. The NRB (new red box) is only $20 MSRP, right? There's no way this is $20 better.

Except they fill completely different roles in the game - the Red Box is an intro material for getting the group playing. Its fantastic for that, but also limited to a few levels.

The better comparison for this would be the DMG. Because the core of this isn't about the basics of the game, but about the mindset of how to run it. How do you build encounters, plots, put the game together, etc.

This is $10 more than the DMG. Theoretically providing the same advice. Along with:
-Maps.
-Tokens.
-DM's Screen.
-2 Adventures.

It sounds like you feel the quality of those materials makes it undesirable, and I suppose thats fair, but the price overall seems not only consistent with their prior offerings, but actually a really good deal.

TikkchikFenTikktikk · Aug 31, 2010

MrMyth said:
The price overall seems not only consistent with their prior offerings, but actually a really good deal.

I thought prior offerings, on average, were on the expensive side too. I do think the DMG is probably appropriately priced considering its excellent content and the quality of its presentation.

Maybe the adventure is worth the loss in page size and paper, binding, and cover quality. Maybe not, I haven't seen or played it yet.

By themselves I certainly wouldn't pay $10 for that screen, those tokens, and the other packins, even if they came in that box.

dangerous jack · Aug 31, 2010

I really think I'll need to see what it's missing from DMG1 & DMG2 before I decide whether or not to buy this.

I frequently use my DMG1 & DMG2 for Monster Themes, Monster Templates, Divine Boons, Artifacts, Hazards, Weather Effects, etc. I've read only once or twice most of the sections on the planar model, how to build encounters, how to structure a campaign, pacing, how to be a DM, the skill challenges, etc. My hope is that they've streamlined this and can fit it all in the kit book, but the page count has me worried.

If I can replace my DMG1 & DMG2 then this looks like a very good purchase for me. If I have to use all 3 books, then I can't justify the amount of space they'll take up on my desk for duplicated info.

Korgoth · Sep 1, 2010

I find this box interesting. $40 does seem like a lot of money, but you clearly do get a lot of stuff in it. You get the re-whatevered version of the DMG (and DMG2 also?)... I'm guessing it's all you need besides monsters to be a 4E DM? You get two adventure books, which is pretty nice. You get a screen, which is worth at least $10. You get counters and maps, which I think are cool.

For me, it's priced at the upper end of what I would consider. But I'm considering it. It looks like a hefty package.

jcayer · Sep 1, 2010

I'm going to blaspheme for a second here. If you won't buy it at $40, would you buy it at $27 from Amazon. I would of course suggest buying it at your local shop, but if the price is too high there, isn't it at least worth supporting WOTC so they can keep making this stuff?

Alphastream · Sep 1, 2010

Our FLGS had an open box on display. It looked pretty good. If I were a new player I would find it a compelling set to purchase. As an experienced gamer, the contents are not particularly compelling. I don't want the tokens, I don't need the book, and the map is cool but has an art style different from Dungeon Tiles.

JoeGKushner · Sep 2, 2010

Are those maps the ones from the first adventure, the ones Gale Force 9 is now selling for $19.99 a crack? Looks like the king's road to me but can't really make it out at that distance.

Anyone see it or is it another road for an ambush point and another tavern?

Marshall · Sep 2, 2010

Jimwise said:
Is this the set where Magic Items will be detailed? This seems almost more of an adventure how-to and beyond.

Yes, it is.

I flipped thru it at my FLGS.
Take your worst fears about what WotC might do with a Rarity system and......its worse.

The PHB standard Holy Avenger is the example of a "Rare" item.
Bag of Holding is "Uncommon."

Magic item distribution defaults to RANDOM. 1-19 Odd is common, Even Uncommon, 20=Rare.

"Do NOT use Wish Lists for Rare items. They are the sole purview of the DM"

Frankly, its the worst item system I've seen since 1e. A complete and utter failure.

Zaran · Sep 2, 2010

Marshall said:
Yes, it is.

I flipped thru it at my FLGS.
Take your worst fears about what WotC might do with a Rarity system and......its worse.

The PHB standard Holy Avenger is the example of a "Rare" item.
Bag of Holding is "Uncommon."

Magic item distribution defaults to RANDOM. 1-19 Odd is common, Even Uncommon, 20=Rare.

"Do NOT use Wish Lists for Rare items. They are the sole purview of the DM"

Frankly, its the worst item system I've seen since 1e. A complete and utter failure.

You said it defaults to random loot. Does that mean it gives other options?

Aegeri · Sep 2, 2010

Marshall said:
Yes, it is.

I flipped thru it at my FLGS.
Take your worst fears about what WotC might do with a Rarity system and......its worse.

The PHB standard Holy Avenger is the example of a "Rare" item.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Bag of Holding is "Uncommon."

Interesting, this disproves that items without an encounter/daily power would be common. So it looks like we won't have "common" iron armbands of power and similar.

Magic item distribution defaults to RANDOM.

Does it? I remember random or treasure parcels being the system you choose between. I would never use random item distribution, but it is there for DMs who want it and it is FREQUENTLY requested. Just because it presents an option you don't like it doesn't mean that it is awful or shouldn't be there. I think the slayer/knight are worthless classes, yet other people are excited about them and enjoy them. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean wizards shouldn't do it.

"Do NOT use Wish Lists for Rare items. They are the sole purview of the DM"

This is really unsurprising. Also it proves that random item generation isn't the default btw, because wish lists don't work in a random item world. So the system clearly assumes that DMs will use it or the treasure parcel system as normal.