Thinking of returning to AD&D 2nd ed... Advice needed.

Diamond Cross · Sep 16, 2010

Oh I've got it...

2e Remastered!

2e The Next Generation!

2e The Undiscovered Country!

2e The Voyage Home!

2e Generations!

Sorry... just had to.

Anyway, another idea is if you like PDFs you might be able to find them on PDF for even cheaper download. Then maybe print them out later.

Imperialus · Sep 16, 2010

I've actually managed to get my hands on everything that I want or need for 2nd ed at a fairly reasonable price. I got the PHB earlier this week, now I'm just waiting on my Monstrous Manual and UA to arrive! B-)

Diamond Cross · Sep 16, 2010

Another idea is that you might be able to find these books you're looking for in used book stores.

I know once in a while I can find some interesting books, RPGS and other, in these stores.

Cyric · Dec 15, 2010

We went back to 2nd Ed. 1 1/2 year ago in one of my groups. By now both are playing AD&D 2nd again and we have a blast. I had to buy a lot of books again that I allready owned before 3rd Ed. but ebay makes this more or less cheap. 2nd Ed even rekindled my love for the Forgotten Realms, something the late 3rd and most of all 4th ed totally destroyed.

The good thing on getting back to 2nd Ed now is that you can focus on the setting you want to play. During the 80s/90s I bought nearly everything and with so many settings and product lines this made it near impossible to stay focused. Now I only buy the rulebooks I really want to use as well as FR and Greyhawk stuff. Plenty to read but not enough to get your brain muddled.

I can only congrat you on going back to 2nd Ed.

rounser · Dec 15, 2010

Hackmaster has too many moving parts though.

I agree with this (and am hacking out some software utilities for personal use in order to alleviate the workload). You may want to kill it and take it's stuff in some respects, though, because they've done some things that at least the first of which 2E probably should have done:

3 first level spells for first level spellcasters.
Oriental Adventures honor system built into the core, and OA equipment built into the splatbooks.
Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog equipment built into the splatbooks.

I looked at what they'd done there and thought, "well apart from the spell compendiums and encyclopedia magica, that's all the system goodies that 1E and 2E can offer in a condensed package, and setting neutral."

rogueattorney · Dec 16, 2010

For copious reasons that I simply won't go into at this time, I much prefer 1e to 2e. That said, I've thought about the problems I had with 2e back in the day, and what it'd take for me to run a 2e campaign.

First, I would make sure I have the hardback Monstrous Manual instead of the loose leaf Compendiums. Those drove me batty back in the day. Can you believe that TSR went over 4 years without having a hardback monster book for their flagship game?

Second, I'd take much of what is explicitly labeled optional in the PHB and chuck it. Probably everything except some of the sub-classes.

Third, I'd do the exact opposite with the DMG, and make liberal use of a lot of the optional character class and kit advice.

Fourth, I'd limit myself to an absolute maximum of three non-core books as references. Say, the Ravenloft and Undermountain box sets and Complete Necromancer's Guide, for example. Or the Spelljammer box, the Mighty Fortresses sourcebook, and the Return to the Tomb of Horrors.

Fifth, other than possibly what's in the three non-core references I've chosen, I wouldn't use any TSR-made adventures at all. Homebrew the rest.

That's what I'd do.

Votan · Dec 17, 2010

rogueattorney said:
Can you believe that TSR went over 4 years without having a hardback monster book for their flagship game?

I disliked it (greatly) at the time and the idea looks even worse in hindsight.

In some ways 1E is a lot more eccentric than 2E but that can make it charming. It's also more balanced in a few interesting ways (like fewer truly abusive spells).

Wik · Dec 17, 2010

Rules wise, I really do prefer 2e to 1e, because it is defintely a simplified version in a lot of ways. In fact, I've often considered 2e to be vastly underrated. I think some of the vilification comes from the glut of splatbooks stretched out over more than a decade's edition run - 2e is, I believe, the longest-running edition.

The thing that bugs me about 2e is the tone that is often taken in the books - it really does have a sort of "one true way" implied in many of the narratives, and I remember being twelve or thirteen years old and thinking I was somehow doing something wrong because my adventures were not even close to the level of suggested roleplay as written in the book (if you went by the books, a good chunk of the session should be spent RPing with kings and merchants, all coinage in the game should be intricately detailed, and skill in etiquette and dancing was much more useful than something like Blind Fighting).

Basically, I loved the rules, but those rulebooks often gave me something of an inferiority complex because my games were not mimicking the books. This is probably why I shifted to games like Shadowrun and d6 Star Wars in the nineties - our sessions didn't feel like such failures to live up to the game.

These days, my favourite part about 2e is just how GM friendly it is. It really is the only edition out there that makes unique world-building "core". It is the only edition that doesn't assume a "kitchen sink" setting, and many products existed for GMs to take the game in completely non-core directions. If you wanted to make a setting that was based on imperial rome where the senator PCs fought viking goblins, 2e was your setting. And yes, I'm aware you can do that in any edition; but 2e actively encouraged this style of play.

Regarding Player's Option - we used the spell points system, and loved them. It made lower-level play much more enjoyable for spell casters. Subabilities were not balanced in the slightest, and should be dropped. We did love the traits and disadvantage rules, though, and they are something I'd love to see more of.

Cyric · Dec 17, 2010

Wik said:
Rules wise, I really do prefer 2e to 1e, because it is defintely a simplified version in a lot of ways. In fact, I've often considered 2e to be vastly underrated.

Absolutly! I would even say that many of the Splat books are quite good. Most kits from the Complete Handbooks are real good roleplaying helps and only a few (mostly from the later books - starting with the bards handbook if I remember correctly) are broken ruleswise or overpowered.

Coming up with NSCs and monsters is a joke in AD&D 2nd compared to 3rd or 4th ed. Only thing you have to learn a bit is spells and even these are much shorter and easier to remember then in the later editions.

The Forgotten Realms Complete handbooks and the Faiths & Avatars give great background informations for charakters and nscs.

You got plenty of settings and options to choose from and with totally differenty game styles.

Wik said:
Regarding Player's Option - we used the spell points system, and loved them. It made lower-level play much more enjoyable for spell casters. Subabilities were not balanced in the slightest, and should be dropped. We did love the traits and disadvantage rules, though, and they are something I'd love to see more of.

I have to agree here. The sub attributes are 100% power gaming. You have to houserule here to get some fun out of it. The class and race building is fun but it opens up the door to power gaming alot. The skill system works better but it's still far from perfect. The traits and disadvanteges are a good start but if you have the chance (and the time) try to use the Hackmaster tables instead - much better and more dertailed.

Would be great if you can give us some update how it works out for you!

Greeetings
cy

Shazman · Dec 17, 2010

Imperialus said:
Ok, so about a year ago or so I came to the realization that I simply didn't care for 4th ed, or 3rd, for that matter. No biggie I figured, I'll just play Shadowrun, I like that. Now however I'm starting to feel the urge to scratch that Fantasy itch, and I've come to the realization that of all the time I've spent playing D&D, 2nd edition was my favorite, which was closely followed by the realization of: "OH CRAP, I'm going to turn into Diaglo, only for the most reviled edition ever to hit print! I'm not even a cool gognard!"

At any rate, there are a whole bunch of reasons I guess, that I'm not going to waste everyone's time writing a wall of text about, but I've hit a bit of a roadblock. I no longer have the core books. When I was first playing 2nd it was in Jr. High and High School and we (as a group) had 1 copy of each of the books, and naturally, with people moving and stuff they have since scattered around the country.

So, as I try to re-buy them without spending a fortune I have a quick question. There are plenty of well publicized retro-clones for 1st ed, Basic and whitebox, but how about for 2nd ed? I know there's a lot of cross compatibility between 1st and 2nd, heck, I fully intend to use my 1st ed Monstrous Manual and Fiend Folio for the time being but there are some differences that OSIRIC just doesn't have.

The last time I checked (about a month ago) you could get used 2nd edition books in good condition for cheap prices at Amazon.com. Noble Knight also has them, but they are more expensive. You can also try Half Price Books if you have any near you.