On the brand VS the game...

The Ubbergeek2 · Sep 18, 2010

As taken from http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...68-if-paizo-can-why-cant-wizards-coast-9.html
I wonder if a part of the problem is there...

Let's take D&D. What if there is a new edition, and that the new edition, while criticaly hailed by critics and (some) fans alike, is also said to be way TOO different from what is D&D.... or another rpg....

What is more important?
The legacy, the links between editions, the mores, etc...
or
The quality of the game in itself?

Is D&D as a brand that important?

Diamond Cross · Sep 18, 2010

No, not to me. I've pretty much stopped at 3.5e. But I've been through a lot of games and a lot of edition changes. If I was loyal to the brand I'd buy 4e and 5e and 6e...

I like the game more than the brand.

And I like quality of the game over anything else as well.

Chainsaw · Sep 18, 2010

WotC/Hasbro owns the brand, so they can stamp it on anything they want. I can still call BS. Ford can stamp F-150 on a station wagon, but we all know that doesn't make the station wagon into a pickup truck, right?

The Ubbergeek2 · Sep 18, 2010

And what if,a s I shown, you reverse the thing? What if the 'corporate crap' is good, but DIFFERENT?

Diamond Cross · Sep 18, 2010

Different is not necessarily bad. I just don't like change for the sake of change.

If something doesn't really need to be changed, then why change it?

The Ubbergeek2 · Sep 18, 2010

Diamond Cross said:
Different is not necessarily bad. I just don't like change for the sake of change.

If something doesn't really need to be changed, then why change it?

It's a lacking answer. Change, first, is not bad as you said. Or good, yes.
And one could also answer you that stagnation is a problem as well. Nothing ever changing, always the same thing.

Would rpers be happy actually buying many times over the same books with minor changes?

Mallus · Sep 18, 2010

I'm interested in quality, usability, and, sometimes, innovation.

Legacy? Not so much. If the new version bears even a passing resemblance to the game I started with --AD&D-- then I'm cool with it (if it's a quality product that's usable and, sometimes, innovative).

Also, when I started playing, most campaigns where so different they might as well have been game systems, even though all the players involved would have sworn they were playing AD&D.

Nobody I knew talked about branding back then. It was a more innocent time...

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 18, 2010

I appreciate a good game, but I also expect a certain faithfulness to a product's legacy. Legacy matters.

After all, Ford made Thunderbirds for years, but those who loved the '57 or '67 are unlikely to be fans of the '77, '87 or '97.*

The older cars were sporty muscle cars...the latter editions were cars for families. They may have been well made, but they weren't the same; the legacy had been abandoned.

4Ed is a decent game. I just don't consider it to be D&D for me.

* Just to be clear: I'm NOTsaying 4Ed is a bloated '77 Thunderbird and previous editions of D&D are cooler like '57 Thunderbirds, I'm just pointing out that a product's changes over time may not resonate with all of the market if its core identity changes too much, and Thunderbirds are a prime example.

Mercurius · Sep 18, 2010

Let's face reality: "D&D" is whatever the owners of the brand name say it is. It may not be your (version of) D&D or my (version of) D&D, but it is D&D.

One of the great things about D&D is that there are thousands of versions. Sure, there are "only", what, six or eight official versions? But then there are rules options within those versions, add-ons, and then countless house rules and game styles that vary per game group or DM.

D&D is not (just) 4E, nor is it (just) 3.5E or (just) AD&D or even (just) OD&D. It is not only my game or your game. It is all of the above and more.

For me it is hard to take someone seriously when they say one version of D&D is not D&D, but another (their preferred) version is.

Wicht · Sep 18, 2010

Legacy matters because...

1) People are loyal to a brand because they like the quality of that brand. There may have been some people that liked New Coke in blind taste tests over old coke but we old coke drinkers didn't drink Pepsi for a reason. We actually liked the more bitter taste of Coke. Many of us liked DnD, not just because of the name but because we actually enjoyed the play experience.

2) Words take on meaning based on history. If I play in a Call of Cthulhu game I expect a certain amount of tentacled madness. If the gamemaster instead decides to do a game about teenaged girls and their romantic problems whilst in college, I'm going to feel cheated, even if the rules are new, innovative and extremely awesome. Likewise, for many of us Dungeons and Dragons implies certain tropes. To the extent that a given version abandons those tropes it is cheating us of the experience we expect.

3) Legacy involves an investment of time. There has been time invested by both the owners of the brand and the clients of the brand. Time has value and when you erase a legacy you are erasing something of real worth to those that have been involved in it.