Is a retro-clone the right game for me?

Howdy folks.

By and large I haven't paid too much attention to the retro-clone stuff for a variety of reasons. But I've recently started thinking about doing a "standard" dungeoncrawling game at the local gameclub. It's a monthly meeting and I'm a fairly busy fellow, which combined with the fact that it's a monthly meeting and with summer approaching (Southern Hemisphere) means I'm wanting something pretty easy and casual.

What am I talking about when I say, "easy and casual"?

For better or worse, I like things to be sort of standardized. AD&D might be a "simpler" game in some respects depending on your perspective, but it's also got a lot of subsystems etc. So just going with an AD&D clone isn't ideal.

I'm thinking "retro-clone" mainly because I can see someone basically stripping down 3.x into a much simpler system; please note that as far as I'm concerned, True20 isn't especially simpler. It takes some steps in the right direction, but still has a ways to get to what I'm after.

I'm wanting a game that's got character creation which takes maybe 10 minutes at the most and that I'd be able to use various D&D modules for. I could always use Risus or PDQ (sorry, but Fate as seen in Spirit of the Century isn't a simple/light game) but thought I'd check and see if there'd been anything done on the retro-clone side of things first.

As well, I'm not really interested in _buying_ a new game. I can always use Risus, PDQ, The Shadow of Yesterday, or one of the other games I've got and hack together something.

So, would a retro-clone be right for me and if so, which?

If it's not, is there some other suggestion you've got? I already have the following free games (or consider them an option):
Risus, PDQ, 4C (a bit iffy but possible), The Shadow of Yesterday, Redbox Hack (strongly tempted by this), possibly ZeFRS.

Amongst commercial games that I've already got, Talislanta (4th edition) is a serious contender (although Tal is more about sandbox play and exploring things than going out and stabulating stuff).

Swords and Wizardry Core (or White Box) might do the trick if you want to go OD&D. They're both very simple (and can be run using ascending armor class). You've got the basic Fighting-Man, Cleric and Magic-User classes for humans and then an Elf, Dwarf and Halfling race/class. In WB, all the weapons do either d6, d6+1 or d6-1 (Core has the d4,d6,d8 etc for different weapons). Roll d6 to determine initiative, highest side goes first. No miniatures or grid needed, all combat is very abstract. DM's expected to be fair and impartial when making rulings on situations not covered by the rules. Lots of rulings of course - because the games themselves are pretty rules light. Our DM usually adjudicates most weird situations with a d6 probability according to how tough he thinks it should be (success on 1? on 1-2? on 1-2-3?). Everyone seems to have a pretty good time and we never ever get bogged down cross-referencing this or that manual (keeps things cheap for the players too).

The rule sets can be downloaded for free, if you want to check them out.

Mythmere Games » Downloads

I think you've got a few choices- personally I'm kinda on the same trip- I've been looking for something that gives a decent amount of options for players, and offers a bit more "fun" mechanics for combat as well as a simple skill system, but still isn't a beast to run or mini dependant.

I have not found it.

That said-

Swords & Wizardry in either form- I prefer the Whitebox rules, as the Core rules doesn't really add all that much from the Supplements, and what it DOES add is not really what I'd like to see from the supplements. Whitebox is really tight- and a great platform for expansion however.

Basic Fantasy RPG takes Moldvay Cook Marsh B/X and adds a few 2e and 3e-isms (race/class separate-but with some non permissable choices, ascending AC, more detailed 3E spell descriptions, etc). It's for free, and very cheap for a print copy via Lulu (which I bought).

Labyrinth Lord by itself is very tight to the original MCM B?X set. With The Advanced companion, it takes all the "goodies of AD&D (3 core books) , and re-writes them into the simple mechanics of B/X. Races, classes, expanded spell lists, monsters, magic items, etc. This is becoming more appealing to me over time. I just wish the books were available in print with no art- the LL art bugs me to no end-just a personal hangup.

another choice would be Castles & Crusades- not a clone, but 3E modernism, filtered through the lens of AD&D gaming style/attitude. Mechanically the system while simple, is kind of wonky, I had to make a major houserule right off the bat for the unified mechanic. But it works well, and especially is easy to house-rule, add to, and convert/utilize products from OD&D right up through 3E with. Again, on a personal hangup level-the release schedules are goofy, chaotic, and never can be relied upon. They announce alot of product that is constantly pushed back (sometimes for years) and some product that came out of nowhere is suddenly released (especially the extremely unpredictable quality work of James Ward). I also find the writing style frustrating- it's obvious they are trying to write to the reader in a old school Gygaxian fashion, but it comes out disjointed, wordy with no purpose, and often repetitive (unlike Gygax).

EDIT- I should also mention, while not as easy to convert existing D&D product to, Spellcraft & Swordplay is a VERY cool retro D&D style game that answers the "what if" D&D had continued to be based on the Chanimail combat system, vs. the "optional" system presented in the LBBs. It is 2d6 based, with a unified mechanic and definitely adds some spice to combat (but does increase the die rolling quite a bit). I also like that it has spell casting roll, making for tamed down Magic-Users. It also adds a few special bits to each class that makes them better at their role- for example, only Fighters can use their dexterity to (effectively) improve AC.

my 2cp.

Scurvy_Platypus said:

• "easy and casual"?
• For better or worse, I like things to be sort of standardized.
• I'm wanting a game that's got character creation which takes maybe 10 minutes at the most
• and that I'd be able to use various D&D modules for.

Click to expand...

If you want a "just sit down and play it" version of D&D that is fast, straightforward, doesn't require a lot of house ruling, and works great with the old D&D modules, then Basic/Expert D&D is my recommendation. I prefer the 1981 B/X sets with the Erol Otus covers (also called Moldvay/Cook or Moldvay/Cook/Marsh).

However, given that you don't want to *buy* a game, I think a retro clone of B/X would definitely fit the bill.

I recommend one of the clones that are based on the B/X rules. My picks are:

• Labyrinth Lord - Free download version available. Rock solid B/X clone.
• Basic Fantasy Role Playing - Free download version available. Can also download in Open Office format, if you want to edit stuff. Not a 100% clone, but still very much in the vein of B/X. Race and Class separate. Uses d20-style ascending AC and BAB.

Swords & Wizardry is another good choice, but is less "just sit down and play it" than the other two I listed. S&W has more of a house-ruling, make the game your own vibe, to me. S&W targets original D&D, rather than B/X.

Philotomy Jurament said:

If you want a "just sit down and play it" version of D&D that is fast, straightforward, doesn't require a lot of house ruling, and works great with the old D&D modules, then Basic/Expert D&D is my recommendation. I prefer the 1981 B/X sets with the Erol Otus covers (also called Moldvay/Cook or Moldvay/Cook/Marsh).

Click to expand...

The Rules Cyclopedia isn't all of that expensive if you are disciplined in looking for a copy and was an amazingly complete set of rules.

In more recent days, while quite expensive, Lamentation of the Flame Princess is pretty interesting as an option.

If you want to use existing d20 material, Microlite20 | The smallest thing in d20 gaming has a very very simple version of 3.5. It may meet all your needs, and it's free.

The advice given so far is pretty rock solid.

OSRIC is your AD&D clone, and is a fairly sizable read.

Labyrinth Lord with the Advanced Edition Companion is AD&D as my group used to play it, without all the baggage. Very Playable.

Swords & Wizardry is 0e. Very easy to houserule. Almost necessary if you were an AD&D gamer

Lamentations of the Flame Princess' Weird Fantasy is another choice... or at the least something you can steal some ideas from. It's a clone of sorts of Oe / B/E.

All the above are free.

Thanks for the feedback folks.

Hmmm. Some general comments...

It looks like the retro-clones are mainly focused on cloning the game. I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise given the "clone" part, but I'd had some hopes there was a bit of...innovation?... happening. On the other hand, it's pretty groovy that there's enough folks that still groove on the various versions, that they've gone ahead and cloned 'em. I guess I'll poke around in them a bit and see.

I appreciate everyone mentioning what they different clones are covering, as it definitely helps me to zero in on what I'm after.

I do have the Rules Cyclopedia, so it's sounding more and more like I ought to consider just using that. Is there anything that the others bring to the table that "cleans up"/"fixes"/whatever the RC? Or should I just worry about one of the clones as a way of protecting my precious and refer to it on the off-chance I need to?

Not saying the RC _needs_ a whole lot of changes/fixes/whatever, just askin'.

Castles & Crusades... *sigh* ... I had a _lot_ of hopes for this. I've got the first printings of the books and I think one of the second printings (don't remember which book though). I was _really_ excited by it, but my interactions with various people have really turned me off to the game. It might seem silly to some but since I run/play games to be social, if the majority of people involved with a game bother me in some fashion, then the game really isn't for me.

I've never heard of Microlite20 or Lamentations of the Flame Princess (awesome name), so I'll have to check those out.

One of the _other_ reasons for not wanting to buy stuff (besides the outrageous cost to get this stuff in New Zealand. 90% of ebay doesn't do international shipping so it's not an option either), is because I don't feel like dealing with physical books if I don't have to. Owing to their nature, I figured the clones would be pdf (or at least available as pdfs) which I could then load onto my device and use at the table.

Sounds like I'll be skimming: Labrynth Lord/Basic Fantasy, Microlite20, and Lamentations over the next few days to see if they hit that spot for me.

Thanks for the feedback folks!

I'm working on the final version pdf of the RCFG Player's Guide right now, which might have some of the innovation you are looking for. You can skim the Beta, but there are quite a few errors in the text, no table of contents, and no index.

I hate to project a final date for the RCFG PG to release, as I am way behind schedule now, but I am working on it diligently, and it has performed very well in the playtest phase.


RC

All of the suggestions in here are great (I'm particularly fond of just Moldvay Basic/Labyrinth Lord). However, I'd like to suggest if you're looking for a really fast game to learn/play, I'd like to put forth Savage Worlds. Their game motto is "Fast, Fun, Furious" - and it really is.

They have a "test drive" version you can download off their site to try it out, and have a supplement designed to cover fantasy (and D&D). The books are really, really cheap and available in PDF if shipping is a problem.

Even if your want to use D&D adventures it's exceptionally easy to convert material to Savage Worlds (minutes, usually).

Best of luck in whatever you choose.