proposal: change death penalty

evilbob · Sep 21, 2010

Currently, the penalty for being raised via Raise Dead is:

The subject returns with a death penalty: –1 to all attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws, and ability checks. This death penalty fades after the subject reaches three milestones.

Reaching 3 milestones in PbP could take... an infinite amount of time. Given the general play structure (fewer, harder encounters) this seems disproportionately harsh.

I am open to any suggestions that lessen the penalty. To get the ball rolling, I'll suggest changing it to:

This death penalty fades after the subject completes three encounters.

Thoughts?

CaBaNa · Sep 21, 2010

I like three encounters, two is too few, four may or may not be too many.

Good suggestion evilbob.

KarinsDad · Sep 21, 2010

3 milestones at minimum takes 6 encounters and at maximum takes 9 encounters, regardless of whether it is a table game or a PBP game. Talk to the DM and arrange for a 6 encounter/skill challenge day if possible to make it closer to 6.

The purpose of death rules is to die. Sidestepping those rules with Raise Dead is fine, but there should be a penalty.

People want to have their cake and eat it too. They want challenges, but they don't want their PC to die. They want to RP angst and sorrow over a fellow PC dying, but they want that PC up and about the very next game day.

And the penalty is not that severe anyway. A player makes at most maybe 7 or so D20 rolls per encounter (unless it is an area effect PC). That means that the PC on average will fail on something that he would have succeeded on 1 encounter in 3. That would on average be 2 or 3 failures total.

Is that really as "disproportionately harsh" as you claim?

FourMonos · Sep 21, 2010

And if you have seen Unit 16 play, it wouldn't make a difference since he misses all the time anyway.

(I'm not being mean, I've seen EB post the average roll numbers for his character.)

I agree with KD. But I'm not a judge so you can ignore my opinion.

renau1g · Sep 21, 2010

Yeah I find Death penalties too lax actually as opposed to being too harsh, even in PbP. Actually, how many PC's have died in LEB? 1...right? Just Pis? That situation was also a more unique one with a pretty low probability of happening and a Coup de Grace.

3 milestones likley will take about 6 months or so at a decent pace. As KD pointed out it's a 5% reduction in to hit, so 1 out of 20 rolls are affected. I think the number may be slightly higher than 7 rolls/encounter if you count a lot of save ends effects, but yeah really it's 2 to 4 failures to be expected.

twilsemail · Sep 21, 2010

KarinsDad said:
Is that really as "disproportionately harsh" as you claim?

Yes.

At a table you deal with your PC being at a disadvantage for a day or two (week or two, but you're not gaming on those other days). In LEB you're watching your PC have a -5% chance to everything for the next 6-12 months IRL. You're possibly leveling 2-3 times in that ammount of time.

If you're going to double the potency of an encounter as far as XP goes. Why not as far as "shaking the chill of the grave?"

Mezegis · Sep 21, 2010

I would change it to 3 milestones or extended rests done post encounter. At minimum you do 3 encounters, at max, 6 for the normal milestone process. Most likely it'll be 5; 2 encounters on day one for 1 milestone, the extended rest, and then milestone 2 after 2 encounters on day two.

The stipulation of extended rest post encounter prevents someone from just resting 3 days and not actually suffering a penalty.

twilsemail · Sep 21, 2010

That said, as I'm apparently the only one this'll affect, don't worry about it.

I've got my work around.

evilbob · Sep 21, 2010

The maximum number of encounters you can have without achieving 3 milestones is infinite. You have to have two encounters in a row to achieve a milestone; if you did one encounter and rested every time, you'd never make it. This isn't likely in tabletop but a more realistic chance in PbP. That said, I doubt it would take forever, but it could certainly take much more than 6 encounters.

I'll be honest: my opinion is that death penalties are stupid. Your character died: they have to wait around for a few real-life weeks or months to get rez'd and you can't play them. That is a penalty. Anything on top of that, in my opinion, is pointlessly punitive.

Personally, I would advocate that the death penalty is: nothing. When you get raised, you're back and that's it. I guessed that might be a tad controversial, however,

so I tempered it to "3 encounters".

Remember: 3 encounters can be 9 months on these boards. At BEST it's probably 3 months. That may not be much time in-game but in real life, that's forever. Again: this is my opinion; YMMV.