Can variants be stacked? (thanks for your patience)

Can variants within the same class be stacked if they are not inherently conflicting?

Example: Can a specialist diviner variant posses both PRESCIENCE and ENHANCED AWARENESS?

Specialist Wizard Variants :: d20srd.org

I have been really studying a lot of 3.5 recently, and am having fun pretending to optimize, though i usually find the idea is already public knowledge when i'm done. It is nice to be able to go to folks like you and have you clarify some of these things.

I have some plot and character ideas that i might get around to sharing when i get bored with my current projects.

btw. are there definitive proofs against this build?

B1/C1/W2/MT3/WR1/AH2/FL10 ?

assuming bardic tutelage, fractional bonus, able learner feat, and the
versatile caster/heightened spell trick.

just a quick reply, but based on a reading of the terms, i'd say that it's possible to have both prescience and enhanced awareness, but you'd lose out on your familiar and your bonus spells. some may think this is a worthwhile trade, while others may not. ultimately, however, it's your DMs call. but since this really isn't "blow up the castle" type changes, i think they'd be cool with it.

Normally, I'd say no.

I try to make a distinction between class Variants and Alternate Class Features.

A class variant normally replaces several class features with other class features, while an ACF replaces one or two class features with a single other class feature.

However, the variants you mention look more like ACF's to me than real variants, so I say go with it.

As Herzog says, a distinction is usually made between "Variants" and "Alternate Class Features". The page you link to is confusing as it talks about "Diviner Variants" instead of "Diviner Alternate Class Features", but it's definitely referring to ACF's.

ACF's exchange a normal benefit of your class, such as acquiring a familiar, for a different benefit such as Instantaneous Magic or Prescience.

Variants usually change several fundamental things about a base class. For example, a Cloistered Cleric gives up d8 Hit Dice, armor proficiency and medium BAB in exchange for better skills and a bonus domain.

There is no reason why you couldn't gain multiple Alternate Class Features, provided you were giving up a different original class feature for each. Obviously you can't twice sacrifice the ability to gain a familiar in order to gain both Instantaneous Magic and Prescience, but you could give up your familiar once to gain one ACF and your specialist bonus spells to gain another.

If a Variant of a class still possesses a class feature, there's also no reason why you couldn't trade out that class feature for an ACF in addition to playing the variant class. The original class feature is essentially the "prerequisite" for taking the ACF, and any class that has such a feature can trade it. For instance, an ACF that required "giving up access to domain spells" could be taken by either a standard Cleric or a Cloistered variant. However, an ACF that required "losing access to proficiency with medium and heavy armor" could not be taken by the Cloistered variant because such proficiency is not a class feature for them.

As to whether variants can be stacked, well, that's up to your DM. There's no reason in principle why not, but it all rather depends on whether or not it makes sense to do so.

I'd like to comment on the build you posted, but I'm currently suffering from Acronym Overload Syndrome and therefore won't remark on it unless you write out the class names in full... I got Bard, Cleric, Wizard and Mystic Theurge but I honestly can't be bothered to work out the others!

mmm. let me see:

B1/C1/W2/MT3/WR1/AH2/FL10

Click to expand...

Bard/Cleric/Wizard/Mystic Theurge/Wild Runner/Arcane Hierophant/Fochlucan Lyrist?

not sure about the Wild Runner though.

Herzog said:

mmm. let me see:


Bard/Cleric/Wizard/Mystic Theurge/Wild Runner/Arcane Hierophant/Fochlucan Lyrist?

not sure about the Wild Runner though.

Click to expand...

Oo, colour me impressed

Jeffrie said:

btw. are there definitive proofs against this build?

B1/C1/W2/MT3/WR1/AH2/FL10 ?

assuming bardic tutelage, fractional bonus, able learner feat, and the
versatile caster/heightened spell trick.

Click to expand...

OK, assuming Herzog's interpretation is correct...

Able Learner: Human only, 1st-level only

Bardic Tutelage: Presumably in order to get access to Druidic, yes?

Versatile Spellcaster/Heighten Spell: I guess you're relying on this to apply to Bard and Cleric spells.

Wild Runner would get you your trackless step for Arcane Hierophant, but it's elf or half-elf only so you couldn't also have Able Learner (human only) and therefore couldn't meet the skill requirements.

I also can't see where you're getting evasion from in order to qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist: none of the preceding classes grant you that ability...

So unless I've missed something - which is entirely possible - I can't see this being a legal build.