What's the current, in print, status of Castle Zagyg??

If this project is ever released, as much as I would love to see it written for one of the retroclones, it would have to be done for 4e or Pathfinder for maximum sales potential.

Since Gary is sadly no longer with us, without his oversight and input, I don't believe any version of CZ released now could ever be considered truly definitive. I know he had notes and outlines and maps, but my impression has always been that much of CZ lived in his head (although some of that he shared with the community over the years in the pages of DRAGON and on message boards).

And with every year that passes after Gary's death, it loses value as a property. Sad, maybe even a little cold, but true.

jaerdaph said:

If this project is ever released, as much as I would love to see it written for one of the retroclones, it would have to be done for 4e or Pathfinder for maximum sales potential.

Since Gary is sadly no longer with us, without his oversight and input, I don't believe any version of CZ released now could ever be considered truly definitive. I know he had notes and outlines and maps, but my impression has always been that much of CZ lived in his head (although some of that he shared with the community over the years in the pages of DRAGON and on message boards).

And with every year that passes after Gary's death, it loses value as a property. Sad, maybe even a little cold, but true.

Click to expand...

Agreed

It certainly wouldn't have much value as a computer game.

Kind of like canceling all physical sets of Monopoly and releasing the game only as an iPhone ap. If its not going to be in classic format, with classic (or compatible) rules, what's the point?

To state that "The tabletop market is too small right now to justify that type of (classic, printed) release." is extremely insulting to fans who actually care about this body of work.

Very sad.

If I were left with EGG's notes and maps I'd do the following:

Release the maps and notes as they are (cleaned up a tad where illegible or unclear) as a boxed collector's set. Along with these high-quality copies there would be a companion set of game maps and books.

The large, 1" grid, maps of each castle levels can be used at any D&D game table. The ledger-style notebook (cloth & leather bound) would have notes for each room (dungeon dressings, treasure, sights and smells) and include notes on each room's occupants, as well as random encounter tables for each level. DMs could fill in system-appropriate creatures and use the notes to flesh out villains, using their system of choice.

This tome would have sidebar notes from Gary's original players, recounting their experiences in the dungeon. The book would provide stats for those Gary DM'd back in the day.

Grimstaff said:

It certainly wouldn't have much value as a computer game.

Click to expand...

And if that's an example of the "advice" [edit for clarity: i.e. "do a MMORPG"] poor Mrs. G is getting from the people that surround her, well...

Grimstaff said:

It certainly wouldn't have much value as a computer game.

Kind of like canceling all physical sets of Monopoly and releasing the game only as an iPhone ap. If its not going to be in classic format, with classic (or compatible) rules, what's the point?

To state that "The tabletop market is too small right now to justify that type of (classic, printed) release." is extremely insulting to fans who actually care about this body of work.

Very sad.

Click to expand...

Gail's goal is to make Gary's work available to the widest amount of people out there, not just the die hards who argue about the "old school", etc. You have to admit computer games is the way to go if you're going to present gaming. There are few people who realize it, but Gary's return to the tabletop was in part because he failed to make the jump to computer games, which is what he was trying to do.

It's odd that people say Gary's works have no value in another format. I think the key thing is to present an adventure to players to have fun. From my own perspective, I'd have fun fighting Tucker's Kobold's on the computer screen as well as the tabletop.

The tabletop market is pretty small and less stable then it was when Gary agreed to the project. At the end of the day, all the fan love doesn't pay the bills either. (And I notice most people only care about Castle Zagyg--they don't seem to care about Lejendary Adventures--I think the true die hard EGG fans are those who loved his writing, not just 1e AD&D stuff). I certainly don't think Gary's works become "less valuable" over time, anymore than Conan and Lovecraft's works became less valuable as the market changed.

At the end of the day, Gail is taking her time and figuring out things from a business perspective. Most of the advice I see is coming from the perspectives of either what they want as fans, or their perspective of Gary as an "artist", being the "iconoclast starving rebellious artist" when that is a gross oversimplification. They are not looking at it from the perspective of the famous RPG creator died--what's best to get his works out there to the masses, what would end up making the most for his estate, what would we have to do to get his product out in the mass market bookstores, etc.

And while I can't say I totally agree with every single decision she's made, she's earned the right to try her approach and I can only hope it works out in the end.

JohnRTroy said:

Gail's goal is to make Gary's work available to the widest amount of people out there,

Click to expand...

95% of the time a work is "made available" in a format other than the original, it has lost most of what made it distinct and valuable.

There are few people who realize it, but Gary's return to the tabletop was in part because he failed to make the jump to computer games, which is what he was trying to do.

Click to expand...

Because it's hard. Computer games are not the same as RPGs., and people have spent years working on that particular art form. What works in one form doesn't work in another.

(And I notice most people only care about Castle Zagyg--they don't seem to care about Lejendary Adventures--I think the true die hard EGG fans are those who loved his writing, not just 1e AD&D stuff).

Click to expand...

So? Less then 2% of the people who own a copy of Huckleberry Finn own a copy of Tom Sawyer Abroad. Do you abuse all the people who say they like Mark Twain's works for not liking Tom Sawyer Abroad? Or do you do what the Mark Twain estate does, and push authentic from the manuscript editions of Huckleberry Finn and Mark Twain's Autobiography?

I certainly don't think Gary's works become "less valuable" over time, anymore than Conan and Lovecraft's works became less valuable as the market changed.

Click to expand...

You're picking two of the most profitable pulp authors. There were authors more well-known at the time then Howard and Lovecraft writing for Weird Tales; they're all forgotten now. Most authors disappear off the charts and are forgotten as soon as they stop writing.

At the end of the day, Gail is taking her time and figuring out things from a business perspective.

Click to expand...

Sure. Looking to squeak every penny you can from the "Gary Gygax" brand is certainly a reasonable business decision. I fail to see why you think fans should be happy with that, though.