Pathfinder 1E Insane Paranoid Conspiracy Theories on the Future of Pathfinder Society

Kvantum · Oct 2, 2010

For those who have not heard, Joshua J. Frost has left his position as head of the Pathfinder Society. There is no official word one way or the other about the reasons for this from Paizo corporate, just well-wishes for Josh in his future endeavours as well as a desire for him to continue writing scenarios for the Society, but from what one can gather from the couple of threads on Paizo's boards here and here it wasn't by his choice.

Paizo is of course saying nothing further, but let's face it, the Internet is the Internet, and random hyperbole, hearsay, and spurious rumor will fill in any gaps that actual, official information will not. I've started up this thread in hopes that we can just get the inevitable lunatic paranoia out of the way as soon as possible, and to keep things at Paizo's boards free of this spurious junk that we all know will crop up sooner or later, so let's just get this madness over with.

My personal guess: Maybe he didn't want to travel overseas for cons, or at least as nearly as often as the job would have required him to.

IronWolf · Oct 2, 2010

We had a thread here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/pathfinder-rpg-discussion/294854-pathfinder-society-changes.html

I suspect they want to increase the marketing potential of PFS play and moved their new marketing manager in to take on that role in ways they have not yet.

the_boldr · Oct 2, 2010

Josh confirmed that he was let go and the decision was not his. In fact, he was rather upset that people would ever think that he'd willing abandon Pathfinder Society since he considered it one of his biggest gaming achievements to date.

My personal guess?

We're all well aware of the difficulties for Josh making external deadlines. Whether it was getting the OP Guide out in a timely manner, entering records from Paziocon and Gen-Con in anything less than three months, or (the big one) getting modules out on time (any GMs involved in Gen Con this year will remember this one) Josh was either a significant procrastinator or had a hard time judging deadlines. Both are the kinds of traits that will eventually get you in hot water. If us as outsiders noticed this regularly, Paizo management as insiders probably saw it more.

Josh was a great guy and did fantastic things for Pathfinder Society, but business is business, and this was some kind of business decision. We can speculate based on our outside view, but often business decisions like this involve something we're complete unaware of.

smug · Oct 2, 2010

Not making deadlines would be a pretty good reason, although I guess they'd have given some warnings, etc, first. I wonder, given that there were new hires not long ago, who were able to step in, if this had been on their mind for a while. Business is business, I guess.

Steel_Wind · Oct 2, 2010

Guys,

Come on. We can speculate for the next year on why a man was dismissed from his job. But this speculation is entirely that -- speculation. Given that we happen to be "speculating" about the specifics of an actual event involving one person's job -- another way of characterizing the discussion is baseless gossip, too.

No matter what we think or do not think, it is very likely that the matter was determined for reasons that we don't know -- and never will know.

In the end, I don't believe that just shrugging casually "it's the Internet" is a valid excuse for then launching off into a public discussion into a very private matter which is none of our business as fans. This is especially so when the matter touches and concerns the intensely personal and private affairs of another human being -- and a fellow gamer, too.

This is not only a personal blow, but a very real economic crisis to a fellow gamer in an economy which is currently taking very few prisoners.

At the same time, I think that if you remembered what Erik Mona had to say during his interview conducted less than a month ago on the podcast, Erik recalled his immediate reaction to the loss of Dungeon and Dragon magazine licenses several years ago was simple: "What was I going to do so that I don't have to fire all these people who work for me?"

My point: the Boss clearly cares for his employees, considered (and very probably still considers now) Josh his friend and I well expect that this entire incident was something that was done only with the greatest of reluctance for reasons we do not know.

Paizo isn't Wizards and it's NOT "just business" when it comes to these matters.

So, as much as you might care to speculate, please appreciate that you are speculating openly on the internet as to the reasons why a fellow gamer lost his livelihood and what was a passion for him. This isn't a game and this really is not a legitimate aspect of our hobby. You are doing this at somebody else's emotional expense. Not cool. And "it's the internet" does not excuse you for acting like a dick.

It may be that in the fullness of time, some of the factors concerned will emerge. It is vastly more likely that they never will. Nor should they. The man was not a public figure or in public office; he was a modest employee of a hobby games company. That's it and that's all.

Entertainment at the expense of another gamer's pride and dignity is not something we should countenance or engage in. That is especially so when the wound is so fresh.

Please. Have the class and decency to let this private matter be private.

Maidhc O Casain · Oct 2, 2010

You must spread some experience around before giving it to Steel_Wind again.

+1

smug · Oct 3, 2010

Steel_Wind said:
Guys,

Come on. We can speculate for the next year on why a man was dismissed from his job. But this speculation is entirely that -- speculation. Given that we happen to be "speculating" about the specifics of an actual event involving one person's job -- another way of characterizing the discussion is baseless gossip, too.

No matter what we think or do not think, it is very likely that the matter was determined for reasons that we don't know -- and never will know.

In the end, I don't believe that just shrugging casually "it's the Internet" is a valid excuse for then launching off into a public discussion into a very private matter which is none of our business as fans. This is especially so when the matter touches and concerns the intensely personal and private affairs of another human being -- and a fellow gamer, too.

This is not only a personal blow, but a very real economic crisis to a fellow gamer in an economy which is currently taking very few prisoners.

At the same time, I think that if you remembered what Erik Mona had to say during his interview conducted less than a month ago on the podcast, Erik recalled his immediate reaction to the loss of Dungeon and Dragon magazine licenses several years ago was simple: "What was I going to do so that I don't have to fire all these people who work for me?"

My point: the Boss clearly cares for his employees, considered (and very probably still considers now) Josh his friend and I well expect that this entire incident was something that was done only with the greatest of reluctance for reasons we do not know.

Paizo isn't Wizards and it's NOT "just business" when it comes to these matters.

So, as much as you might care to speculate, please appreciate that you are speculating openly on the internet as to the reasons why a fellow gamer lost his livelihood and what was a passion for him. This isn't a game and this really is not a legitimate aspect of our hobby. You are doing this at somebody else's emotional expense. Not cool. And "it's the internet" does not excuse you for acting like a dick.

It may be that in the fullness of time, some of the factors concerned will emerge. It is vastly more likely that they never will. Nor should they. The man was not a public figure or in public office; he was a modest employee of a hobby games company. That's it and that's all.

Entertainment at the expense of another gamer's pride and dignity is not something we should countenance or engage in. That is especially so when the wound is so fresh.

Please. Have the class and decency to let this private matter be private.

Yeah, no. Unless the mods ask us not to -- which they're obviously entitled to do -- I don't see how this is disrespectful or pointless. Joshua Frost himself said that he hadn't left of his own choice, in a post he made on a public Facebook page. I doubt he thought that wouldn't cause more discussion.

Sure we can speculate about why someone gets the boot, or otherwise has to leave and if we do -- and I don't think that ever so many will, to be honest -- it's because we're interested. Additionally, a lot of it will just be customer discussion of the qualities of one of the people who worked for the firm to which they give their money; that's entirely legitimate. For what it's worth, to me PFS seems to be a crown jewel in Paizo's firmament and a significant achievement for Josh.

As for the "Paizo isn't Wizards" line, I don't see the relevance. Paizo is run by clever businesspeople and sometimes they'll fire employees (not saying Joshua Frost was fired -- although it seems most likely, to me -- but as I recall they did fire Jacob Burgess a couple of years ago). It seems to me that they treat their staff pretty well, but that's not the same as carrying someone who for some reason or other they don't need or want anymore. Paizo don't lay people off like Wizards do -- this is a deliberate decision on their part, as Lisa Stevens tells it (and she was the victim of a WotC layoff herself, I think, as was Vic Wertz) -- but I don't think anyone was comparing this to Wizards' perennial firing programme anyhow.