Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Medium range is ok by me, sure.

I like the domain idea. We could go for a somewhat more general construct domain, since I don't think an official one exists (I did find someone's homebrew).

I'm ok with the caster piloting the juggernaut.

Using an actual juggernaut as a focus for create guardian was probably my idea. But I like this version. It's a bit tighter, and the pilot juggernaut spell fills that void.
 

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Cleon

Legend
Medium range is ok by me, sure.

Updating Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft.

I like the domain idea. We could go for a somewhat more general construct domain, since I don't think an official one exists (I did find someone's homebrew).

I was thinking of something a little narrower than that, perhaps even a cultural-specific "Knorr Rituals" domain that included some of the other rituals in Jakandor - Island of War.

We could do that and a generic "Juggernaut" domain I guess.

Domain's don't take up much space, and we've already used plenty! :cool:


I'm ok with the caster piloting the juggernaut.

Me too. How about this revision:

This spell bonds a willing intelligent being's consciousness to a construct, temporarily transforming the construct into a guardian juggernaut. Only constructs under the caster's complete control can be affected. The pilot must be a willing intelligent being chosen by the spellcaster (who may be the caster themself). The type of construct that can be piloted is based on your caster level, as shown on the table below.

* * *

You may create less powerful juggernauts than your level would allow if you choose. The juggernaut is under the control of the pilot, not the spell's caster, if these roles belong to separate creatures. [Additional constructs at DM's option.]

Using an actual juggernaut as a focus for create guardian was probably my idea. But I like this version. It's a bit tighter, and the pilot juggernaut spell fills that void.

Shall I update the create guardian in the Activating A Guardian Juggernaut Working Draft then?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Well, let's finish the spell and then work out the domain. You might have to send me some of those other rituals.

Those revisions regarding the caster as pilot look good. I think allowing additional constructs for pilot juggernaut but not create guardian probably makes sense.

Yes, let's get it all updated and look at it. Can we crib the spiritual equipment stuff from create guardian for pilot juggernaut?
 

Cleon

Legend
Well, let's finish the spell and then work out the domain. You might have to send me some of those other rituals.

If I remember correctly there are quite a few of them and a fair few are general community-oriented things.

Let me pull out Island of War.

The rituals are:

Accept Burden (Enchantment/Charm)
Blessed Hunt (Enchantment/Charm)
Bond of Trust (Enchantment/Charm)
Cry of the Clan (Alteration)
Good Will (Enchantment/Charm)
Know Condition (Divination)
Lend Health (Necromancy)
Lift Unseen Veil (Divination)
Mark Trap or Trail (Alteration)
Nourishment (Alteration)
Prayer for the Dead (Abjuration)
Purify Spirit (Enchantment/Charm)
Wakefulness (Enchantment/Charm)

What most of them do is fairly obvious from the name. Purify Spirit is for personal improvement not exorcism, by the way.

There are also a bunch of new spells for the Knorr:

CLERIC:
1st level: create talisman, detect holy presence
2nd level: ghost shirt
3rd level: eulogy, undead taboo
4th level: adoption, bind relic, create guardian, declare enemy, disinherit
5th level: create clan

WIZARD:
1st level: create talisman, master weapon

Most of those don't look terribly relevant for a "juggernaut domain", they're more a "community domain" matter.

Those revisions regarding the caster as pilot look good. I think allowing additional constructs for pilot juggernaut but not create guardian probably makes sense.

Yes. I think some fairly straightforward CL to CR of construct rule might do for the options, with a "At the DM's discretion" note.

Yes, let's get it all updated and look at it.

Updating Activating A Guardian Juggernaut Working Draft.

Updating Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft.

Can we crib the spiritual equipment stuff from create guardian for pilot juggernaut?

That's what I was planning on doing!

Although a fair chunk can just be "like the create guardian spell."
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Well, if we're copying from the equipment, does that just leave CL for the different constructs? I'd suggest using the same CLs for the juggernauts as in create guardian.
 

Cleon

Legend
Well, if we're copying from the equipment, does that just leave CL for the different constructs? I'd suggest using the same CLs for the juggernauts as in create guardian.

Upon reflection, the spiritual equipment will have a number of differences - for a start, the spell only has a 1 round casting time so the pilot won't have the create guardian's hour casting time to install the equipment.

Some rephrasing might be in order.

How about this:

You may create less powerful juggernauts than your level would allow if you choose. The juggernaut is under the control of the pilot, not the spell's caster, if these roles belong to separate creatures.

The pilot must ritually don a control focus during the casting time of the pilot juggernaut spell to establish a mystic link with the construct. This focus item usually takes the form of a mask shaped like the face of the construct. During the casting process, the caster must stay within range of all the components and targets of the pilot juggernaut spell, which includes the pilot.

After casting is completed, the totem animates as a guardian juggernaut of the appropriate type under control of the pilot. The juggernaut is able to use any magical equipment in its spiritual equipment slots at the direction of the pilot provided the pilot wields a replica equipment version of it (see the guardian juggernaut template for details).

The pilot and the spellcaster can freely access the juggernaut's spiritual equipment slots to insert and remove magical items. They can install equipment before the pilot juggernaut spell is cast or while the juggernaut is animated, and are also able to change equipment by replacing items in an equipment slot.

A guardian juggernaut created by this spell can be piloted until it is destroyed or the spell's duration runs out. The pilot can direct the juggernaut as long as the juggernaut is on the same plane and the pilot wears the control focus. If the pilot is incapacitated or killed the juggernaut becomes inactive, since it only moves when its pilot acts. The juggernaut also becomes inactive if the pilot takes off the control focus since this breaks the pilot's connection with the juggernaut. The pilot cannot resume control by putting the control focus back on. Recasting pilot juggernaut guardian will "reset" the remaining duration of the spell to 1 minute per level and also allows the caster to reassign the pilot – either appointing an entirely new pilot or reconnecting a pilot who's connection to the juggernaut was broken.

A pilot juggernaut spell can’t be defeated by dispel magic or dismissed by its caster. It can be disjoined by mage's disjunction or broken by break enchantment* if such spells are cast on either the pilot or the juggernaut. Break enchantment automatically breaks a pilot juggernaut spell from the same spellcaster. *The pilot juggernaut spell is an exception to the rule that break enchantment only works against spells of 5th level or lower.

When the pilot juggernaut spell expires the guardian juggernaut reverts back to being whatever base construct it was created from.

At the DM's option, this spell may be used to pilot other varieties of construct such as a shield guardian or clay golem. The minimum caster level required to cast pilot juggernaut on such constructs is typically twice the Challenge Rating of the construct (i.e. CL 16th to operate a CR 8 Shield Guardian as a piloted juggernaut).

Material Component: [Expensive incenses or body paints?]

Focus: A finely-crafted item of clothing (usually a mask) that resembles the base construct. It costs ??? gp.

Replica Equipment: These are wooden copies of items used with the juggernaut's spiritual equipment ability, see the create guardian spell for more information.

Well, if we're copying from the equipment, does that just leave CL for the different constructs? I'd suggest using the same CLs for the juggernauts as in create guardian.

Works for me.

Updating Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft.
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I can go with your proposed equipment text.

I like the mask focus, but surely the base juggernaut should also be a focus.

I guess knowing the spell level would be helpful in figuring out costs. Create Guardian is Clr (or maybe domain?) 4, and this feels a bit stronger. Maybe Domain (or Clr) 6, Sor/Wiz 7? The main advantage is the reduced casting time and perhaps reduced fussiness about conditions when the spell works. I'm not sure how much of a bonus needing a functioning construct is --- that's kind of expensive in and of itself. But we were probably going to allow other construct types, which adds flexibility. Is all that worth a couple of spell levels? I have a much better feel for CR than this.
 

Cleon

Legend
I can go with your proposed equipment text.

Updating Pilot Juggernaut Spell Working Draft.

I like the mask focus, but surely the base juggernaut should also be a focus.

Yes, hence the "Focus: A mask? The construct?" in the previous draft.

I'll resolve that by adding the line "Focus: The construct to be piloted." to the Working Draft.

I guess knowing the spell level would be helpful in figuring out costs. Create Guardian is Clr (or maybe domain?) 4, and this feels a bit stronger. Maybe Domain (or Clr) 6, Sor/Wiz 7? The main advantage is the reduced casting time and perhaps reduced fussiness about conditions when the spell works. I'm not sure how much of a bonus needing a functioning construct is --- that's kind of expensive in and of itself. But we were probably going to allow other construct types, which adds flexibility. Is all that worth a couple of spell levels? I have a much better feel for CR than this.

I'm leaning towards Domain 4 for create guardian and Domain 6, Sor/Wiz 7 for pilot juggernaut.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I will agree to all of that.

Did we want to add other construct types to the table or just a note that require CL is up to DM judgement?
 

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