The RPG Paradox

It'd be absolutely ludicrous for me--or anyone--to talk about "what people want" from RPGs as if there was any universal answer. Heck, click on any random thread in the forums, and you'll see pretty quick that the differences of opinion are legion.

What you can find, if you're engaged in the hobby, are certain patterns. Things that a lot of people would love to see in their own games. It may not even be a majority, but it's a sufficiently significant subset that the major games would do well to at least try to satisfy that particular desire.

The problem is that RPGs, by their very nature, often prove ill-suited to, or even completely incapable of, providing the desired experience.

(Most of what follows probably isn't news to many of you, but I'm hoping that by laying it out as a specific phenomenon, it might spur some discussion. Or at least provide an interesting read.)

What got me thinking of this recently is Rhukma, my character in the Savage Worlds of Solomon Kane campaign I'm currently involved in. He's one of two spellcasters in the group. He's also a foreign, exotic, mysterious type. (The campaign is set in Eastern Europe. Most of the PCs are European. Rhukma is Indian.)

In a fantasy novel, such as the Robert Howard pulps on which the whole game is based, Rhukma's magics would be creepy, enigmatic, and (above all) ill-defined. When he calls on the names of the various Hindu gods, raises his elephant-head talisman high, and commands the roots to lash out and grab his enemies or the beasts to obey his commands, it would be a bizarre, frightening thing.

And we do our best to play it that way, at least so far as it doesn't derail the game, or offer my character more than my share of the spotlight. But let's be honest. It doesn't actually feel that way. We all know that Rhukma has access to four specific spells from the book, and exactly how they work, and what their limits are.

In almost any ongoing discussion of magic in D&D, you'll eventually come across someone lamenting the fact that magic in the game feels so mundane, so commonplace. The spells have no mystery to them. They're so specifically defined that there's little creativity in their use. People being able to buy or create magic items takes the wonder out of them. The fact that a specific quantity of magic item bonuses is built into the system renders them nothing but modifiers. There's no magic in the magic.

I don't necessarily disagree. Obviously, not everyone shares that feeling, but for those that do, it can be a real downer when it comes to playing certain types of campaigns or characters.

It's also almost entire unavoidable, as the first of the RPG paradoxes. Boil it down to the core, and it's very basic: Something's only mysterious and exotic so long as it's unknown. Make it known--quantify it, limit it, make it accessible--and it cannot remain mysterious. No matter how much flowery prose or adventure-specific myths the DM wraps it in, it's eventually going to be a magic item out of one of the books (or at least following the same rules).

It's possible for magic to feel truly magical for a while, in a new game, but eventually, the fact that it is a game, rather than a novel or a movie--the fact that the players must be allowed to see behind the curtain, at least in terms of making use of their own character's powers and items, means that the mystery must fade. The only way--the only way--for magic to remain enigmatic and mysterious in an RPG, for a game to truly replicate fantasy tales where sorcery is alien and frightening and unknowable, is to keep it completely out of the PCs' hands.

One can make the exact same argument, incidentally, for exotic races. No matter how much you'd like your elves, or dragonborn, or Melniboneans to seem truly alien, that image is going to break down the instant those races become available to PCs. You can't keep the audience in the dark when the audience is actually writing/acting the part of two of the main characters.

Another of the more common laments, at least in my experience, is that many games--D&D in particular, but I've heard it about others, too--aren't lethal enough, and therefore not challenging enough. I'm not talking about the fact that characters in D&D can fight at full effectiveness until dead. There are lots of games that do try to mimic injury with "death spirals," where the more wounded a character is, the more penalties they have. The Solomon Kane game I'm in does that. I hate it, personally, but it's obviously an experience that some games offer.

But a game where combat is realistically lethal? Where a single sword thrust is likely to kill? Where standing toe-to-toe (well, face-to-toe) with a dragon is almost certain to result almost immediately in a character becoming toe jam? Yeah, there are a few games that offer that. (I've heard that The Riddle of Steel is one, but I've not played it myself, so I can't say for sure.) So it's not technically impossible. But I challenge you to find a popular game that does so.

Why? Because once again, you run into a paradox between the experience that some people want (or think they want) and the requirements of the game itself. See, the thing is, most of the time, when people are playing a game? They want to be playing a game. Quick, brutal, easy, and frequent death may make the game feel more challenging, but it also results in a lot of downtime as people make new characters. And it's not just the time spent rolling dice or allocating points, but in coming up with new backgrounds and personalities that mesh with the group and the campaign. (To say nothing of the DM/GM/ST having to constantly rework any ongoing plotlines.) Except in games where it's specifically built in (like Paranoia, which can be a lot of fun but provides a limited variety of gaming experiences), excessively frequent character death actually impedes the ability of the players to play the game.

And of course the obvious paradox is that your traditional roleplaying game can't handle some of the most popular fantasy character archetypes. We've already covered why it can't manage the mysterious wizard. But how about the brooding loner? Oh, sure, lots of people create such characters. But the result is almost always one of two outcomes:

1) The character swiftly ceases to be a loner, falling in with the group with relative ease, or

2) The DM spends a whole lot of time with a split party. Now, leaving aside all the various "don't split the party" jokes, there's the simple fact that when a DM is focusing on what's happening over here, it means that any players whose characters are over there aren't actually getting to do much. (There are sometimes ways around this--letting them play NPCs, for instance--but none of these techniques are always appropriate or always satisfying.) Now, I'm not suggesting that a party should never split up, or that this playstyle can't work for some groups. But as a general rule, in a group-oriented game like most RPGs, it just doesn't fly.

So we've got a situation where some of the classic characters of fantasy--Conan, Elric, Solomon Kane--are extremely difficult to port over into most RPGs, because they rarely operated in large groups. And when they did, it was very rarely among equals.

(The Buffy RPG tried to work around this by giving the non-superpowered types extra "drama" points--luck, basically--to keep them on par with the "stars." But even there, it's often difficult to keep the super-folks from overshadowing the others. Again, this works for some groups, but in your average RPG, it's not a good idea to relegate some players to the roll of sidekick.)

Finally, a lot of fantasy tales create drama, suspense, or just tension in battle via the use of scarcity. The heroes are stranded on an island with precious little water. They're trying to hold a fortification against an oncoming horde, and they're short on arrows.

This is something that RPGs can do. Tracking rations and ammunition is a staple for some groups. Here's the problem, though... It's tedious. It's a lot of bookkeeping, and while it may not sound like much to just check off a box with every shot, in the thick of everything else to remember in combat, it can be a serious hassle.

"But isn't that worth it, for the dramatic possibilities?" Well, for some groups, sure. But for many players, the fact that is does boil down to bookkeeping, to numbers on a sheet, strips it of any actual dramatic tension it might have. Much like the magic issue, above, the fact that the players are the ones behind the curtain means that it's not drama; it's homework.

The way around it, of course, is to leave it in the hands of the DM. The PCs begin to run low on food or ammunition based purely on DM fiat. That's fine with a group that trusts the DM not to screw them over, and to use that particular tool only when it's truly dramatically appropriate. But it's difficult to hardwire "skilled DM" into a game's rules-as-written. So this sort of tension becomes something that specific groups can pull off, but your average game, out of the box, can't.

By now, many of you are already getting ready to point out games that are exceptions to these rules. I'm sure they exist. But I'm equally sure that they're either

A) very narrow in scope, doing one of these things well at the expense of a lot of other possibilities, and/or

B) capable of doing these things, but not well.

For a more generalized game, like D&D, Savage Worlds, GURPS, World of Darkness, etc. these particular "paradoxes" are always going to be hurdles to be overcome or, in most cases, grudgingly accepted as limitations.

The more astute among you will have noticed that all of these issues fall under a common heading. They're all problems primarily for people who want to recreate certain types of stories in their campaigns. Want your magic to be mysterious and enigmatic? Want your combat to be swift and lethal? Want your nonhuman races to be alien? Odds are good it's because you're trying to recreate the feel of the sort of fantasy you enjoy reading or watching. (And I don't say that as a negative. On many of these issues, I'm right there with you.)

And that, really, is the ultimate RPG paradox: The fact that a game and a hobby originally inspired by some very specific fictional influences is quite capable of creating its own stories, but is woefully ineffective at modeling many of the types of tales on which it's based.
 

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Klaus

First Post
How about a skill-based magic system where you *try* to accopmplish something, but isn't guaranteed to get exactly that? Would that a) keep magic mysterious, and b) still make it worth it to play a spellcaster?
 


prosfilaes

Adventurer
I think magic can be more mysterious then D&D, though. M:tA has some of that; you're not doing four rote spells, you've got an array of flexible magic to call on, and each spell is individually adjudicated by the DM. D&D magic--and I'm guessing Savage Worlds, from your description--is more precise, exact and repeatable then any worker of mysterious magic has the right to deserve.
 

triqui

Adventurer
I think you should take a look to Spirit of the Century and Dresden's Files, both using FATE system.

They are not "mainstream games", and probably they dont solve completelly your issues (specially the lonely fighter one, since those are games that encourage greatly teamplay). But they give a fresh breath of air and a new look to gaming. At the very least, they did for me. Tags are the future. And not only in computer's science :)
 

JoeGKushner

First Post
The loenr bit hits a lot of places. My biggest disappointment in Hamlet's Hit Points isn't the idea, but rather that all the stories Robin Law uses are essentially solitary characters.
 

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
There magic as an this mysterious strange force that is hard to understand...which exist in part becuase magic doesn't actually work...and there is magic that lets you fly without an airplane. I.e. magic that does work. I think that second has been and remains very appealing. Its really part of the foundation of the hobby. And is certainly part of fiction (think harry potter) and related media.
 

Wyrdsmith

First Post
Lesson 1 in Cooperative Storytelling: Know Your Audience

I'd like to address the issue of this "paradox" by first stating that the gaming groups I run always represent a cross-section of gamers (somewhat of a circumstantial position, I realize, but bear with me). There are always a couple of die-hards who try to utilize the ruleset to their utmost benefit, some who enjoy more "limited" aspects such as tactical wargaming and/or straight-up roleplaying scenarios, and always at least one newbie who has never even played an RPG before.

That said, I think the issue here starts with the people you're playing with, rather than any inherent obstacles in the RAW. For instance, the first time I sat down with my 4E group I had a group of six players. While three of them had played a previous 3.5 campaign with me, it was a brand-new experience for two of them. Out of the remaining four, we had two "casual" gamers and two newbies. Needless to say, damn near EVERYTHING was mysterious to the group (somewhat even to me, the DM who'd been reading the 4E stuff for almost six weeks before the campaign started...) as no one had any familiarity with the ruleset and how it would work during actual play.

Now, almost everyone in our group had copies of the PHB, and a handful owned the full set of books and frequently trolled online forums about RPGs to help with their in-game strategizing (or "stat-i-gizing" as I sometimes call it). So that leads us to the big question of this thread: how to preserve the mystery?

Step 1: Customize, damnit!

This one should be easy for any gamemaster with a smidge of experience. You already know how most of the rules work, so just concoct opponents/obstacles/situations that fit into the rules but are aren't yet (or hopefully ever) published. Mix-and-match, convert/steal ideas from other RPGs/settings, or go straight from scratch. Keep in mind, though, that your real tools for mystification have very little to do with rule application and EVERYTHING to do with presentation. From my experience, all it takes is just a tad of ambiguous--yet pertinent!--description to get your players involved and hopefully, sweating/rolling frantically.

Step 2: Seperate Player/Character Knowledge, Describe Accordingly

Before you ask: yes, this is a continuation of Step 1. However, this step deals with things that already familiar to your group. For instance, you GMs out there may think that everyone KNOWS what an orc looks like (depending on the setting and whether you spell it "orc" or "ork"), remember that there ARE some (maybe like five) new gamers out there who haven't even seen the Lord of the Rings movies. Even if they did, that particular mythos does very little to describe particular traits or even origin (the MOVIES, not the books).

My point is (and it's a belaboured one, I know) that all it takes is the right description keep BOTH your veterans and your newbies in the dark.

Example: "You're menaced by two orcs in leather armor wielding battle-axes. Roll initiative" (Not bad for most groups, but if you want to keep the PCs on their toes...)

The Wyrdsmith Way: "A pair of man-shaped creatures advance toward you, each swathed in patchwork leather and brandishing cruel-looking war-axes darkened by rust or worse."

Now, you're experienced gamers will either A) assume they're orcs/hobgoblins/whatever and plan accordingly, or B) take a minute to nail down a few descriptive terms to pigeon-hole their opponents. Either way, you've got right where you want 'em: they're already participating in the encounter before a die is rolled, and all the newbies in the group are learning valuable RPG "survival skills".

Assume they just rush in, however. Even better! You should ALWAYS be prepared with at least one action/ability that isn't in published material. This technique works especially awesome when you present your group with identical opponents, then grant one or two of them special abilities of your own devising. The hard-core will be stumped, while the newbies will just take it in as even more fantastical gaming fun!


Well, I would do my third and final step for this thread, but I've just had a female compatriot cast a Summon Wyrdsmith to Lunch spell, and that's one spell's mechanics I am all-too-familiar with. Besides, this reply has already run over long, so til next time, stay wyrd!
 

LokiDR

First Post
I think you should take a look to Spirit of the Century and Dresden's Files, both using FATE system.

They are not "mainstream games", and probably they dont solve completelly your issues (specially the lonely fighter one, since those are games that encourage greatly teamplay). But they give a fresh breath of air and a new look to gaming. At the very least, they did for me. Tags are the future. And not only in computer's science :)

Dresden Files is a game that tries to make monsters to be monsters again. It does give you a sense of "mysterious" but it is still a system. I can understand the plant monster just used a block on my movement as the GM says "roots burst from the ground and hold your feet fast". It is more open and therefore easier to think it is mysterious but this is still an illusion and the cost is balance. Dresden Files is a great game for gamers but doesn't do well for power gamers. You need the group to go along, the rules by themselves can't address balance well because there is so much the players can do.

The history of the gaming industry looks like it's saying "structure sells". D&D is not a free-form game. Of the old White Wolf line, which was the most popular: the free-form Mage the relatively ridged Vampire? I can tell you which would address Ari's interests better but at the end of the day print runs will trump niche interest in a niche market.
 

cowpie

Adventurer
... By now, many of you are already getting ready to point out games that are exceptions to these rules. I'm sure they exist. But I'm equally sure that they're either

A) very narrow in scope, doing one of these things well at the expense of a lot of other possibilities, and/or

B) capable of doing these things, but not well...


...And that, really, is the ultimate RPG paradox: The fact that a game and a hobby originally inspired by some very specific fictional influences is quite capable of creating its own stories, but is woefully ineffective at modeling many of the types of tales on which it's based.

I play a lot of the new "indie" rpgs that touch on exactly this analysis of rpg systems. For example, Ron Edwards (designer of Sorcerer) is one of many indie designers that noted that game rules tend to focus on following a specific "creative agenda" that guide the gameplay experience down certain directions.

By identifying the 'nuts and bolts' of what these things are in RPGs, the indie people have designed a bunch of new rpgs that deliver narrative storytelling experiences. Instead of trying to modify D&D out of the box to force the game engine to be "storytelling" (D&D's game engine isn't designed to do this), the indie designers just make a new game with rules that are set up to play like out like an actual fantasy novel.

The players have a rap session where you conciously decide what kind of game you feel like playing, and then have fun playing it. They can pick the right game for the right experience.

If you want to play a strategy game that has you work together as a team, managing resources (spells, powers, hit points, equipment), using battle tactics, and so on, to beat a set of challenges in a pre-prepped scenario, then play D&D. The whole game engine in based around this.

If you want to play a game where the players explore a series of scenes in a setting they love, through a pre-prepped plotline, where they "puzzle out" a scenes plot keys to trigger the GM's next big scene, then play WOD, Traveller, GURPS, Call of Cthulhu, Star Trek (etc). These are "simulationist" game engines.

If you want to play a game that has all the players (GM and Players) designing the story and plot as they go along, using game engines that support this, then play an indie narrative game. These games are really good for playing RPGs that play out like the plot of Game of Thrones, or Lord of the Rings, just be prepared to play in a game with no hit points, no encumbrance, and no Monster Stats. A lot of them play out like the TV show "whose line is it anyway" but with dice and rpg rules.

(This is a good thing BTW, because it's no fun when you're trying to make your D&D game recreate the Lord of the Rings, and 1/2 way through the first session, Frodo fails his saving throw and is slain by a giant rat. Real dramatic. You could spend hours modding D&D to be something it's not, but why not play "Prime Time Adventures" or "Burning Wheel", and save the D&D for the butt-kicking 'beat the dungeon' style games).
 

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