Pathfinder 1E Are druids overpowered in Pathfinder?

Aberzanzorax · Dec 1, 2010

A friend of mine is DMing a pathfinder campaign and is concerned that druids are overpowered in comparison to the other classes.

Do you guys think druids are OP, or is my friend off base here?

Flatus Maximus · Dec 1, 2010

Since you keep your physical stats while wildshaped (plus/minus stat bumps depending on size only), druids that want to do it all are pretty MAD. Unless you have huge point buy/rolls, you'll likely have to choose to focus on either spell casting or melee. They remain a very good class, IMHO, but I wouldn't say they are overpowered.

ancientvaults · Dec 1, 2010

I would certainly say that druids are highly versatile, moreso than many other classes. I don't know about overpowered because they can be taken out of their element pretty quickly, but given the proper circumstances druid are slippery fish to catch.

Volaran · Dec 1, 2010

You may wish to check some other threads in this forum, as well as the Paizo boards, but in general, the answer is that no, druids are not overpowered in comparison with other classes.

In 3.5, druids had the ability to be powerful physical combatants without investing much in terms of physical ability scores. When you wildshaped, you assumed the full physical ability scores of the new form. This allowed a 3.5 druid to focus on mental stats (particularly wisdom) and still be extremely physically formidable.

In Pathfinder, wildshaping only modifies your existing physical ability scores. A physically weak human druid will be a weaker than average wolf, bear, etc.

A lot of a druid's power level and focus will depend on how you spread around their ability scores. They do have a lot of options though, and that might be what is intimidating your DM.

MortonStromgal · Dec 1, 2010

Yes, but they always have been. And they are not as overpowered as they used to be.

StreamOfTheSky · Dec 1, 2010

"Are druids overpowered in Pathfinder?"

No. Unless you consider jacks of all trades who are second best (or worse) at just about everything to be overpowered.

ProfessorCirno · Dec 1, 2010

Level 9 spells

Aus_Snow · Dec 2, 2010

For the most part? Only in theory, as per 3e. And that goes for Clerics and Wizards (possibly Sorcerers) as well.

That said, I'd say the imbalances that were there have been largely rectified.

Kaiyanwang · Dec 2, 2010

In Pathfinder duirds remained powerhouses (as said above, 9 level spells and stuff) but are far more balanced than in 3.X because you are allowed far less crazyness with Wild Shapes, and physical stats are kept in check.

Moreover, if the animal companion worries you, there is an option to remove it and use a clerical domain instead.

So, no. Not too poweful.

Kaisoku · Dec 2, 2010

Yeah, I'd say the Druid is far more in-line than in previous versions of d20 (except possible core 3.0e, pre natural spell feat).

- Wildshape was changed when they made the changes to Polymorph in Pathfinder. All polymorphing was changed to point to a series of spells that granted specific bonuses that were appropriate for the level of spell.
In this way, you weren't relying on bestiary entries and CRs to get your stats, rather you were using the spells system which is inherently more trackable and balanced when it comes to "power per level".
This means that Wizards casting polymorph spells are far more balanced as well.

- A lot of the third party spells (that were not OGL) weren't carried over. As long as you don't allow 3.5e material into your Pathfinder game, you are already curbing a lot of the Druid's ridiculous tactics from the past.
Although I haven't looked at all the spells for Druids in the APG yet.

- Animal Companions are now based on specific stats, instead of just allowing you to pick a creature from the bestiary and have at it. Once again, this is similar to the Wildshape change, in that you have specifically balanced animals that grow into their power at a known rate... rather than just picking any old animal that might have a Str or Natural Armor or other stat that's ridiculous for it's CR.

- While the Druid was balanced with the above situations, the other classes it was able to fill in for got a little better at their focuses (Fighters are now a major step ahead in combat, Clerics have channeling for healing, etc).
This means that a Druid, while still viable, is no longer "good enough to be tied for best" in many of the roles it used to take on.
A Druid built to be good at everything, really will be like a jack of all trades, in that he'll be a master of none*.

*Note that it's not bad being a master of nothing, because having the second best tool for a lot of situations is perfectly viable in a D&D game. Just look at the Bard.
In effect, you can be a "master" of versatility.