D&D 4th Edition [Proposal] - Healing's Word back as Divine Power - Page 2





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  1. #11
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    Ignore stonegod
    There are already differences (L4W gets an extra Expertise feat, we allow dragonmarks).

    As to the feat, I haven't thought about enough.
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  • #12
    Also, L4W starts with 25 points, not 22 like in LEB.

  • #13
    Wait, what? Pacifist Healer's been nerfed? I JUST made a pacifist healer!

    I sent Tarkus off to be reviewed last night - his Healing Word IS including the Pacifist Healer bonus damage. So I guess the outcome of this proposal decides whether he gets accepted or rejected as-is.

    If this proposal's rejected, I may want to swap one of my feats for the Runepriest multiclass before he gets approved.

  • #14
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    I'm a little surprised that this has gotten so many positive votes so quickly. I thought pacifist healers deserved to be nerfed. I don't much like the way the WotC did it--removing the divine keyword seems stupid--but I also don't think that things should be returned to the way they were.
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    To be painfully honest, I'll conjecture that many players have Pacifist Healers already, and don't want them nerfed. As for me I don't fall into this category, and my YES is still a little on the fence. I understand KarinsDad's point. The extra damage is sill quite substantial, but doesn't the PH give up the opportunity to deal damage in order to gain this bonuses? This means that the enemy stays alive long enough to deal more damage, right? Not being a jerk here, just trying to make sure that the advantage is seen from the perspective of the risk.
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  • #16
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    Ignore CaBaNa
    The pacifist cleric is not just a feat, it is a design concept, with sacrifices in a number of different areas beyond combat effectiveness. It can be reduced to simple math, but I don't think that type of argument does the issue justice.

    I don't have a pacifist cleric, I do believe Healing Word should have the Divine keyword.
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  • #17
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    Ignore stonegod
    Judging is, however, all about balance, CaBaNa. Cool, unbalancing concepts should not be favored over (un)cool, balanced ones.
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  • #18
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    In that case the question is, has Pacifist Healer been unbalancing in practice as is? We've got several examples with DM's and players to ask. So far River has been the main example, my character Pok has been traveling with him, and I haven't seen any encounters reduced to triviality due to his presence.

    That may just be due to r1's ability as DM though...
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  • #19
    As a DM for River from levels 4-10 I struggled a bit more early on, but MM3 damage expressions changes have given me far more evil DM tools to play with

  • #20
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    Ignore stonegod
    I'm cross-posting my analysis from the LEB thread, where I am a judge.

    -----

    It Pacifist Healing too powerful?
    - It adds Cha (a Cleric secondary, and thus scaling) and scaling dice
    - In trade, it encourages not to attack enemies (roughly) half the time.

    The question is if this is a balanced trade off? I'm not so sure. The healing on average is:
    - Pacifist @ 5th: 1d6+3 x 2 = 2d6+6 = <13> (assume Cha 16 @ 1st, so Cha 17 @ 5th)
    - Monster @ 5th: 2d6+6 = <13>*0.5 (assume hits 50%) = <6.5>

    - Pacifist @ 11th: 2d6+4 x 2 = 4d6+8 <22>
    - Monster @ 11th: 2d8+9 @ 50% = <9>

    - Pacifist @ 16: 2d6 + 5 x 3 = 6d6+15 = <36>
    - Monster @ 16: 3d8 + 11 @ 50% = <11.5>

    So, the question is, does not attacking after bloodied mean the monster takes twice as long to kill? Lets say it does, meaning the average damage from that monster done before it dies is twice the number above. Well, after 5th level, Pacifist Healing is always a win: At 11th, you gain 4hp; at 16, 13; etc. And note, this is just from Pacifist, not from any of the other Healing Buffs (Healer's Implement, Healer's Lore which is already based off the key stat). From this stand-point, I don't see balance: I see a definite edge to the PC. And note, my assumption that one person not attacking a bloodied enemy double's its lifetime is very optimistic (really, it should just have its lifetime increased by at most 4/5 if you assume everyone contributes damage evenly in a 5 person party, which itself is a stretch). Nor does this factor in other healing powers the PC has, which will make the healing:hurt ratio even more one sided.

    A feat should give an advantage, but not such an overwhelming one. I agree with Velmont and KD that the problem is with the feat, not with Healing Word. However, putting Healing Word back the way it was w/ no change does not address the problem. [It also opens up the weird interaction between Primal powersource/Druids and Divine/Healing Word which hasn't been discussed]

    -----

    I voted No in the LEB thread. I am open to ideas to balance the feat, but putting things back they way they were is not a fix.
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