Interesting dilema with alignment.

SonOfLilith · Feb 8, 2002

Could someone pull a sword or knife on someone and still be considered good? For example, you are at a bar. You know the guy next to you knows something, but is not telling you what. When he throws his head back drinking, you pull a dagger, point it to his neck, and say "start talking." Would a good player do this?

Tsyr · Feb 8, 2002

Depends... does the player actualy intend to carry through with it?

Threats are one thing, actions are another.

Crothian · Feb 8, 2002

I dooubt it would be considered evil, but it could severely hurt their reputaion.

SonOfLilith · Feb 8, 2002

Say it was only a threat. but the guy didn't talk, so he put the dagger through the guys hand. Also, let's say that they wanted info on where a band of bad people were keeping his wife.

Tsyr · Feb 8, 2002

No, not good.

That's torture. A good character should _never_ torture... Perhaps under _EXTREME_ (read, many many lives at stake) a good could... but it would be a case-by-case basis, not often ok, and would still count towards an alignment change (Anything else for a month or so afterwords, bang) even in that case.

SableWyvern · Feb 8, 2002

Good guys explicitly can't torture?

Maybe not in your campaign, but I can't see that as an absolute.

It may not be lawful in a lot of circumstances (ie, in circumstances where the torturer does not have legal permission to do so), but whether or not it is evil depends very much on context and campaign style.

Scarab · Feb 8, 2002

I'd say that's typical Wulf Ratbane behaviour (Hey, Wulf! You're famous when people start to use you as an example!). Though the debate still rages on whether Wulf is CN or CG.

MythandLore · Feb 8, 2002

SonOfLilith said:
Could someone pull a sword or knife on someone and still be considered good? For example, you are at a bar. You know the guy next to you knows something, but is not telling you what. When he throws his head back drinking, you pull a dagger, point it to his neck, and say "start talking." Would a good player do this?

Depends on where you draw the line, you could just use your fist and do the same thing, is that evil?
I play LG characters a lot, I find the best thing to do is provoke a violent action from your adversary if you have too, but don't just throw attacks at everything.
You could talk to the person, and continue to bug them until you get what you want.
Se if you can reason with them, or perhaps barter for info.
If he tries to leave, block his path, etc, don't let him escape but don't pull a weapon at the start ether.
But it's all depends on the situation.
If I had to get the info fast, and I knew he was evil and had the info and not getting to info would cause terrible suffering to others, I may do more then just draw a weapon, I might go strait up to him and cut his leg off, to show I'm serious and that his not going to get away.

green slime · Feb 8, 2002

Good guys do not torture people.

Not for any reason, really.

That's not saying that a person who is Lawful Good, would never, ever torture someone. Put anyone under enough duress and they'll do all sorts of wierd things.

This doesn't alter the basic fact that Torture is NOT a good act.

If you are using an absolute moral scale, you can't waffle about these things, or there is nothing differentiating good from bad apart from personal outlook.

But if you want to give your players carte blanche to come up with "reasonable" and "logical" reasons why morally reprehensible acts are just and good, feel free...

SableWyvern · Feb 8, 2002

Re: Re: Interesting dilema with alignment.

MythandLore said:
Depends on where you draw the line, you could just use your fist and do the same thing, is that evil?
I play LG characters a lot, I find the best thing to do is provoke a violent action from your adversary if you have too, but don't just throw attacks at everything.
You could talk to the person, and continue to bug them until you get what you want.
Se if you can reason with them, or perhaps barter for info.
If he tries to leave, block his path, etc, don't let him escape but don't pull a weapon at the start ether.
But it's all depends on the situation.
If I had to get the info fast, and I knew he was evil and had the info and not getting to info would cause terrible suffering to others, I may do more then just draw a weapon, I might go strait up to him and cut his leg off, to show I'm serious and that his not going to get away.

Interesting moral dilema when you realise you've got the wrong guy....