The Immortal's Handbook: Gods & Monsters (unfinished)

Upper_Krust · Feb 6, 2011

Howdy hécatonchire!

hécatonchire said:
Hello, i have seen (in ascension book page 113 "divine feat package divine monk III) the feat "improved quivering palm" : "quivering palm affect those immune to critical hits" . Where can i find this feat? what's prerequisites and exact benefits? this feat affect creatures like undeads or constructs with no constitution score? have they a circonstance bonus for theire fotitude saves?

my quasideity monk is spécialised (perfect quivering palm) and i encount many many creature with critical immunity (feats heavy armor fortification, undead elementals, oozes, constructs , heavy fortification armor enhancement) and my technique is never used.

thank you for an answer.
à la prochaine, merci

I assume its one I meant to put amidst the new feats section and it just got overlooked. Sorry about that.

I definately think Monks should have such a feat (same way Rogues have such a feat for Sneak Attack), otherwise they get neutered at epic levels.

Khisanth the Ancient · Feb 7, 2011

Upper_Krust said:
Hello there!

Its out there now. People can do as they please.

If anyone has any questions on it fire away.

OK, cool. I might try to do something with the Drakainai.

It's interesting to see them listed as Abominations. I have some notes from when I was trying to work them up as an Epic Dragon type a little more than a year ago (though I shelved that since I thought there would be an 'official' Immortals Handbook version) ... I had their forms changing as they aged, I remember, eventually turning into a really freaky mix-n-match monster form like is sometimes described for Kampe (who I had as a Great x3 Wyrm, I think). I had them listed as the 'Draco-rogue' like the Polychromatic dragon is listed as 'Draco-sorcerer', etc.. though I can't remember why I made that association now.

But doing them as Abominations probably makes more sense - D&D true dragons are based on postmedieval dragons. Ancient Greek "dragons" are really a whole different creature, usually just monstrous serpents (the dragon of the Golden Fleece, the dragon of the Gigantomachy, Ladon, the Hydra, Python, etc) -- though the drakainai are significantly weirder; some descriptions of Kampe make her almost like some sort of Lovecraftian Great Old One.

hécatonchire · Feb 7, 2011

thank you for this answer. But rogues converts half their sneak attacks in divine damages, but quivering palms don't inflict damage. and if creatures with no constitution score are affected by quivering palms, their Fortitude DCs are lower than creatures with constitution score ( it s not fair for this creatures who are normaly immunised).
maybe a feats for quivering palm affect those with critical immunities and a cosmic abilities for quivering palm affect those with death effect immunity or no score constitution...
i ll play my character this week end, i hope find a solution , it's an headache.

Upper_Krust · Feb 7, 2011

Hey Khisanth dude!

Khisanth the Ancient said:
OK, cool. I might try to do something with the Drakainai.

I had these fantastic yet simple Drakainai creation rules (for 3E) and for the life of me I cannot find them.

It's interesting to see them listed as Abominations.

They were sort of a sub-class of Abomination, a bit like the children of Dragons where only one parent is a dragon.

I have some notes from when I was trying to work them up as an Epic Dragon type a little more than a year ago (though I shelved that since I thought there would be an 'official' Immortals Handbook version) ... I had their forms changing as they aged, I remember, eventually turning into a really freaky mix-n-match monster form like is sometimes described for Kampe (who I had as a Great x3 Wyrm, I think). I had them listed as the 'Draco-rogue' like the Polychromatic dragon is listed as 'Draco-sorcerer', etc.. though I can't remember why I made that association now.

As I recall, the way I had it set up was that they had a number of additional limbs based on their Hit Dice. So you rolled randomly for what type of limb that was (extra head; arm; leg; tail; wing; torso etc.) and each you chose had a variable effect on its stat block - or something like that (it was about 5 years ago so bear with me).

But doing them as Abominations probably makes more sense - D&D true dragons are based on postmedieval dragons. Ancient Greek "dragons" are really a whole different creature, usually just monstrous serpents (the dragon of the Golden Fleece, the dragon of the Gigantomachy, Ladon, the Hydra, Python, etc) -- though the drakainai are significantly weirder; some descriptions of Kampe make her almost like some sort of Lovecraftian Great Old One.

She is pretty freaky. Darn it I can't remember the way I designed her but she was definately the most powerful.

Wish I could find those notes.

Upper_Krust · Feb 7, 2011

Hey there hécatonchire!

hécatonchire said:
thank you for this answer. But rogues converts half their sneak attacks in divine damages, but quivering palms don't inflict damage. and if creatures with no constitution score are affected by quivering palms, their Fortitude DCs are lower than creatures with constitution score ( it s not fair for this creatures who are normaly immunised).
maybe a feats for quivering palm affect those with critical immunities and a cosmic abilities for quivering palm affect those with death effect immunity or no score constitution...
i ll play my character this week end, i hope find a solution , it's an headache.

I just mean that it was similar to the Rogue in that they could circumvent those immune to critical hits. Not that they did half divine damage.

Higher level Quivering Palm abilities might let you auto-explode enemies of a certain (lower) level. Or cause the exploding foe to cause damage to those around them.

hécatonchire · Feb 8, 2011

good idea for exploding damages! i ll submit this idea to my GM

hokuto shinken power!
you're great !
thank you upper krust
(ideas for applications as : protect an ally against opponent's quivering palms , shatter item, a quivering palm targeting a body part, and so on)^^

Khisanth the Ancient · Feb 16, 2011

More thoughts on the Drakainai...

Most seem to be fairly simply serpent-women (though possibly gigantic), but Kampe is supposed to be especially hideous in form. So maybe she represents an 'older' stage.

--
Long before I ever heard of the Immortals Handbook (in fact in 2007) I wrote up stats for Echidna and Kampe. Of course Kampe at least is hideously under-statted at CR 30, whereas I'd now put her at probably Intermediate Deity equivalent. That Echidna is CR 23 ... I don't have a good 'feel' for where she belongs, but it should be higher than that.

Mmm, maybe:

Kampe - Intermediate Deity equiv (killed by Zeus)

Delphyne (sometimes conflated w Python) - Lesser Deity equiv (killed by Apollo)

Echidna - Demi-deity equiv? Or slightly lower? (killed by Argus Panoptes, which isn't much help)

Sybaris - probably Hero-deity equiv (balor level) at best (killed by ridiculously obscure hero Eurybaros)

Upper_Krust · Feb 16, 2011

Helo there hécatonchire!

hécatonchire said:
good idea for exploding damages! i ll submit this idea to my GM

Happy to assist.

hokuto shinken power!

Funny you should say that because I am sure a few of the Monk abilities in Ascension were inspired by Fist of the North Star.

you're great !

I'm okay with perhaps the odd moment of greatness.

thank you upper krust

You are very welcome.

(ideas for applications as : protect an ally against opponent's quivering palms , shatter item, a quivering palm targeting a body part, and so on)^^

I wonder did I ever put Quivering Body in Ascension - I can't recall. Had in mind an ability that meant if anyone touched the monk they would be subject to the quivering palm.

Upper_Krust · Feb 16, 2011

Khisanth the Ancient said:
More thoughts on the Drakainai...

Most seem to be fairly simply serpent-women (though possibly gigantic), but Kampe is supposed to be especially hideous in form. So maybe she represents an 'older' stage.

--
Long before I ever heard of the Immortals Handbook (in fact in 2007) I wrote up stats for Echidna and Kampe. Of course Kampe at least is hideously under-statted at CR 30, whereas I'd now put her at probably Intermediate Deity equivalent. That Echidna is CR 23 ... I don't have a good 'feel' for where she belongs, but it should be higher than that.

Mmm, maybe:

Kampe - Intermediate Deity equiv (killed by Zeus)

Delphyne (sometimes conflated w Python) - Lesser Deity equiv (killed by Apollo)

Echidna - Demi-deity equiv? Or slightly lower? (killed by Argus Panoptes, which isn't much help)

Sybaris - probably Hero-deity equiv (balor level) at best (killed by ridiculously obscure hero Eurybaros)

Really wish I could find that Drakainai material of mine - like looking for a needle in a haystack though...just looked through about 1000 pages of old notebooks (some interesting stuff but didn't find the details of the Drakainai).

I think the baseline for the rules which were something like (and this could be gibberish)

Base 35 HD (Gargantuan):
+1 HD per extra limb (arm, leg, tail, wing etc.)
+2 HD per extra head

Khisanth the Ancient · Feb 28, 2011

Upper_Krust said:
Really wish I could find that Drakainai material of mine - like looking for a needle in a haystack though...just looked through about 1000 pages of old notebooks (some interesting stuff but didn't find the details of the Drakainai).

I think the baseline for the rules which were something like (and this could be gibberish)

Base 35 HD (Gargantuan):
+1 HD per extra limb (arm, leg, tail, wing etc.)
+2 HD per extra head

Interesting.

But personally I wouldn't start them at Gargantuan -- I'm not sure the more 'humanoid' ones (Echidna, Delphyne) are supposed to be that gigantic -- I made Echidna Large way back when I made those old stats, and I still think that's about right.

Actually, I'd probably give them the ability to change their size, but that's a straight steal from the Chaos trilogy (by John C Wright) -- Echidna in that series is able to size-shift from human size up to miles long.

The Immortal's Handbook: Gods & Monsters (unfinished)

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