Fortune cards.

Ahwe Yahzhe · Jan 11, 2011

WotC's a company- it only stays alive if it makes a profit. What are they supposed to be ashamed of? Actually, I'd love for WotC to make wheelbarrows of money, so they keep making D&D products. And when they make products that are popular with the majority of their customers, they should do so.

I agree with the earlier posters who said (1) they were surprised the company that makes M:tG showed such restraint in NOT making CCG elements for a decade now (I think that fear of market cannibalization may have had a hand here), and (2) that you can choose whatever you want to use as roleplaying props: battlemats, dungeon tiles, minis, pogs, power cards, and now, Fortune Cards. I love the toys, but I've seen plenty of people who play with ancient bags of dice, some Heroclix minis, spiral notebooks, and a lapsed DDI subscription.

As for the Fortune Cards, if enough people buy them, try them in their games and like them (and then buy more of them), then WotC will probably make more products like it. If people don't buy them, they won't. WotC will feature Fortune Cards in the next season of Encounters, just like they rewarded players for using Essentials in the current season. I'm shocked and astounded that WotC has the audacity to try to create new products AND have the gall to actually market those products and expand their customer base.

-AY

CharlesRyan · Jan 11, 2011

DaveMage said:
You can certainly spin it any way you want, but when a chart and a dice roll could accomplish the same thing - sorry, it's a money grab in the format it's in.

A table and an open-ended supply of cards are not the same thing, mechanically or in terms of game experience.

A table is closed and fixed. It has X many possible results. Anyone who has read the table or played long enough is aware of all possible results.

A set of cards is open. There is a large and evolving set of potential results; by building a deck (or simply going with what you got out of a booster pack) you choose a subset of that set to create a smaller number of possible results.

In effect, WotC isn't delivering you a chart or table. They're delivering a mechanism for customizing your own tables ad infinitum.

And this mechanism adds an additional experiential element: Unlike a table, it can deliver surprises. Open a new booster pack at the table, and your deck may deliver results that you've never encountered before.

Now, you might not think this is a valuable experience or worth the cost. Fair enough. But regardless, it's not the same thing as a chart or table, and it's not true to say that WotC could have delivered the same mechanics or experience through a chart or table.

CharlesRyan · Jan 11, 2011

Kamikaze Midget said:
Expressing your opinion on gaming products is what about 90% of ENWorld is, and no one should feel like they have "hang-ups" just because they like or dislike a certain product.

Sorry. By "getting all bent out of shape," I meant " expressing a knee-jerk hostility toward a product and the company that produces it based on nothing but a predisposition against the product format and an assumption about the motives of the publisher."

Not "disliking."

I don't like playing clerics, so I didn't buy the most recent book about clerics. But I also didn't sneer at it or WotC for producing it.

I'm fine with disliking, and I respect your dislikes just as much as your likes. Just not so much with the other thing.

Mallus · Jan 11, 2011

On the negative side: the 4e Fortune Cards look dull.

On the plus side: they reminded my friend to bring the Whimsy Cards he used to great success in an old campaign to our next session.

On the neither-plus-nor-minus side: it sure took WotC long enough to explore the collectible card option for D&D. I think the moment has passed...

Tortoise · Jan 11, 2011

CharlesRyan said:
A table and an open-ended supply of cards are not the same thing, mechanically or in terms of game experience.

A table is closed and fixed. It has X many possible results. Anyone who has read the table or played long enough is aware of all possible results.

A set of cards is open. There is a large and evolving set of potential results; by building a deck (or simply going with what you got out of a booster pack) you choose a subset of that set to create a smaller number of possible results.

In effect, WotC isn't delivering you a chart or table. They're delivering a mechanism for customizing your own tables ad infinitum.

And this mechanism adds an additional experiential element: Unlike a table, it can deliver surprises. Open a new booster pack at the table, and your deck may deliver results that you've never encountered before.

Now, you might not think this is a valuable experience or worth the cost. Fair enough. But regardless, it's not the same thing as a chart or table, and it's not true to say that WotC could have delivered the same mechanics or experience through a chart or table.

This is exactly why I pre-ordered a box. There are some things I would like WoTC to have done to make them even more useful to me (negative effects, zone effects, included with bonuses). I saw them for open ended random event/effect as you described.

shadzar · Jan 11, 2011

CharlesRyan said:
A table and an open-ended supply of cards are not the same thing, mechanically or in terms of game experience.

A table is closed and fixed. It has X many possible results. Anyone who has read the table or played long enough is aware of all possible results.

A set of cards is open. There is a large and evolving set of potential results; by building a deck (or simply going with what you got out of a booster pack) you choose a subset of that set to create a smaller number of possible results.

In effect, WotC isn't delivering you a chart or table. They're delivering a mechanism for customizing your own tables ad infinitum.

And this mechanism adds an additional experiential element: Unlike a table, it can deliver surprises. Open a new booster pack at the table, and your deck may deliver results that you've never encountered before.

Now, you might not think this is a valuable experience or worth the cost. Fair enough. But regardless, it's not the same thing as a chart or table, and it's not true to say that WotC could have delivered the same mechanics or experience through a chart or table.

Actually the cards are just like a table in that both are finite, but with the drawing, and depending on how many of each variant as opposed to a table including an entry only once, as you may be thinking, you are only changing the frequency of each item to occur. Someone could buy all the cards and have 1 of each say 100 total cards, so they have a 1 in 100 chance of getting any of the abilities. How is that different than a table with each written down and rolling for it?

Likewise someone could have 25 different cards and have 4 of each in their deck. A table with the same frequency is very easy to make.

The cards can actually be even more closed since most table dont have you remove the entry after it has been rolled, but can you shuffle a card back in after using it or once used has it be expended for that game? You increase the frequency of the other cards, but have limited the number of possible outcomes due to eliminating previously selected entries.

a deck of cards and a table are the same thing, except for a deck of collectible cards, has a higher cost and more work to put into building the same thing a table could provide and cost in regards to money and time.

OnlineDM · Jan 11, 2011

I mentioned this in the other thread as well, but just to be clear these cards will not be required for LFR, according to the owner of my Friendly Local Game Store. LFR is community-run now anyway, so it would be tough for WotC to mandate anything.

Is it possible that some store owner would require purchase of Fortune Cards in order to play in LFR? Sure, maybe, but that's not an official thing.

My guess is that WotC will be announcing a new organized play program to replace officially sanctioned LFR, and that program will require Fortune Card purchase in order to play. I'm expecting "Advanced Encounters" or something like that.

ProfessorCirno · Jan 11, 2011

What's the difference between a shameful money grab and a good, useful product I'm glad <Company> releases?

Apparently, that I want to by one and I don't want to by the other.

shadzar · Jan 11, 2011

CharlesRyan said:
And this mechanism adds an additional experiential element: Unlike a table, it can deliver surprises. Open a new booster pack at the table, and your deck may deliver results that you've never encountered before.

I missed this on first read and reply, and probably best to separate it from the rest, but neither one of the other can pose any different surprise to a player, but the problem is the surprises and problems it can pose for the DM that is unready for Card #12 that nobody has seen yet. Granted odds are people will find a checklist and list of card effects online before too long, if not found to be in copyright violation for such a list to exist; so a surprise would only be in opening the pack same as a CCG. Again this can be duplicated by a table, by the players not being given access to it, only given the results after a "roll" at the start of each encounter.

The biggest problem with surprises for the DM...they most always cause havoc and delay of game, especially when it is surprise rules they had no chance to evaluate before running the game.

pukunui · Jan 11, 2011

Nagol said:
Alas, I doubt it. Lion Rampart was sold to White Wolf and they mutated the cards into storypath cards which I didn't like though I recall little about them. 3 Guys Gaming made a different story path card set for use at teh table that I heard good things aout, but I think you've been gone 10+ years as well.

Savage Worlds has an adventure deck, but I think it's tied to the mechanics.

Dang. Maybe a set will turn up on eBay. What did they look like?

Although, I suppose I could just take the text from that site and make my own set of cards. I do have a diploma in graphic design, after all ...

Fortune cards.

Ahwe Yahzhe

First Post

CharlesRyan

Adventurer

CharlesRyan

Adventurer

Mallus

Legend

Tortoise

First Post

shadzar

Banned

OnlineDM

Adventurer

ProfessorCirno

Banned

shadzar

Banned

pukunui

Legend

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