Designing OGL Supers for d20 modern

Walking Dad · Jan 14, 2011

Hi everyone. This is the first the read in response to the votes here:
What kind of Super OGL book would you like?

I will state my design goals and analyze the modern d20 game chapter by chapter and look for necessary changes so I can incorporate the Pathfinder changes and M&M 2nd powers, on which I base my design. This is no advertisement, as I'm not selling everything but an open rules-design process were every EN World member can post his opinion to.

If you just want to say what a bad idea this is in general, please post it in the above linked thread.

Edit: At first I wanted to use anime d20 for powers, but changed my mind for various reason. anime d20 will still be used as inspiration for changes on the M&M powers to better fit the modern d20 system

Sources:

Modern SRD
http://www.scratchfactory.com/ModernSRD/Home.php
http://www.d20resources.com/

Pathfinder
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

Anime d20 SRD
http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/animesrd.html
http://www.angelfire.com/anime4/splatterpro/COMPd20/index.html

D&D 3.5 SRD
http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm

Walking Dad · Jan 14, 2011

Basics

No need for changes here

Ability Scores

Not many changes here, but it should probably spelled out what other traits are affected by them. Should be replaced with contents of this page:
Ability Scores - Pathfinder_OGC

To keep compatibility with 'normal' d20 modern we will not change anything here. Later some references will have to be replaced

Defense

Now, this becomes very interesting. Shall we keep it this way. I personally say that I don't like both a class bonus to defense and armor adding to it.
Let's do a Armor As Damage Reduction variant for this. We also will replace natural armor with a Damage Reduction (BTW, the finished product would really benefit from a Common Terms chapter), so no extra 'Touch attack' entry is needed.

Saving Throws

We will leave it this way for know. But we will maybe want to add an option for direct rolls, making Saving Throws more similar to Defense.
(Saving Throws And Save Scores)

Action Points

I frankly don't like them personally. Having a renewable resource base on XP only felt wrong to me. They also give to few options. I prefer more these rules for them, but with a different acquisition mechanic. But which mechanic is more optional and best thought about later.

Walking Dad · Jan 14, 2011

Starting Occupation

We will keep them for now, but there will be changes in the skill and feat list which will require some changes. Not sure there will be changes in Wealth, too. Maybe they should also offer other benefits, like Pathfinder background traits.

Allegiances

An optional rule that will stay optional.

Reputation

While I do like the reputation system, I'm not sure it should be influenced by class level and feats. I will come back to this in their chapters.

Walking Dad · Jan 14, 2011

Basic Classes

I tend to agree with the Classes Anime d20 that the old d20 classes are not fully balanced, what becomes a problem with the Power Point buy we want to add later. So let's balance them!

Anime d20 uses this costs to approximate the 'class' worth for each level.

d20 Modern Classes Point Costs

Code:

[FONT=Courier New]Class Advantage                               CP Cost
(3 + Int modifier) Skills gained each Level   0.75 each Level
(5 + Int modifier) Skills gained each Level   1.25 each Level
(7 + Int modifier) Skills gained each Level   1.75 each Level
(9 + Int modifier) Skills gained each Level   2.25 each Level
Smart Hero Class Skill bonus each Level       0.5  each Level
+1 Defence Bonus                              2
+1 Reputation Bonus                           1
+1 Talent                                     2[/FONT]

I add the other needed statistics (derived from other places in the anime d2 SRD) in my own table:

Code:

[FONT=Courier New]Class Advantage                               CP Cost
+1 Feat                                       1
+1 BaB                                        3
+1 to Fortitude, Reflex, or Will Save         1
d4 Hit Dice                                   1 each Level
d6 Hit Dice                                   1.5 each Level
d8 Hit Dice                                   2 each Level
d10 Hit Dice                                  2.5 each Level
d12 Hit Dice                                  3 each Level
[/FONT]

Adding all the points from each level for all 10 levels they derive:

Code:

[FONT=Courier New]Class            Points
Strong Hero      100
Fast Hero        103
Tough Hero        97
Smart Hero        98
Dedicated Hero    95
Charismatic Hero  91[/FONT]

Sorry, but I don't share this approximation. Later d20 modern products had feats that gave two Talents (Charismatic Plus). The d20 psionics handbook had a feat that gave five Skill points (Open Minded). And the costs for skills included the Human racial bonus (as shown here: Skill Points Per Level).
And why should Int based classes treated different for skills, with the con based class treated the same for HP?

Also I would rate Defense and BAB worth the same: 2 CP.

So my new table looks like this:

Code:

[FONT=Courier New]Class Advantage                               CP Cost
+1 to Fort, Ref, or Will Save                 1
+1 to Base Attack Bonus                       2
+1 Defence Bonus 2
(2 + Int modifier) Skills gained each Level   0.5 each Level
(4 + Int modifier) Skills gained each Level   1 each Level
(6 + Int modifier) Skills gained each Level   1.5 each Level
(8 + Int modifier) Skills gained each Level   2 each Level
+1 Feat                                       2
+1 Talent                                     2
[/FONT] [FONT=Courier New]d4 Hit Dice                                   1 each Level
d6 Hit Dice                                   1.5 each Level
d8 Hit Dice                                   2 each Level
d10 Hit Dice                                  2.5 each Level
d12 Hit Dice                                  3 each Level[/FONT]

I'm not sure if Feats / Talents shouldn't only be 1 CP, but feats like Iron Will suggest otherwise, if we want to keep the cost for saves.

I added suggested changes in the attached pdf to make the point costs closer to each other.

Walking Dad · Jan 14, 2011

New Class: Powered Hero

Time to use the won data for our own class.

We will change Defense to a level dependent trait: Defense Bonus = 1/2 level.

HD 6 is our lowest HD.

Powered Hero

Code:

                  [FONT=Courier New]Ref  Will Fort 
Level BaB  Save Save Save Special 
  1   +0    +0   +0   +0   +3 Character Points 
  2   +1    +0   +0   +0   +2 Character Points 
  3   +1    +1   +1   +1   +3 Character Points 
  4   +2    +1   +1   +1   +2 Character Points 
  5   +2    +1   +1   +1   +3 Character Points 
  6   +3    +2   +2   +2   +2 Character Points 
  7   +3    +2   +2   +2   +3 Character Points 
  8   +4    +2   +2   +2   +2 Character Points 
  9   +4    +3   +3   +3   +3 Character Points 
 10   +5    +3   +3   +3   +2 Character Points[/FONT]

HD 6, Int + 2 skill points / level
class skills: none

or, even more extreme / flexible:

Powered Hero

Code:

[FONT=Courier New]Ref  Will Fort 
 Level BaB  Save Save Save Special 
  1   +0    +0   +0   +0   +5 Character Points 
  2   +0    +0   +0   +0   +5 Character Points 
  ...[/FONT]

HD 6, Skill 0+int / level
class skills: none

(These are actually less character points than the other classes, but this is balanced by the higher flexibility.)

Edit: M&M 2nd is very similar in this regard. The table would look like this:

Powered Hero

Code:

[FONT=Courier New]
                  Ref  Will Fort 
Level BaB  Save Save Save  Special 
  1   +0    +0   +0   +0   +5 [I]Character[/I] Points 
  2   +0    +0   +0   +0   +4 [I]Character[/I] Points 
  3   +0    +0   +0   +0   +5 [I]Character[/I] Points
  ...[/FONT]

HD 6, Skill 0+int / level
class skills: none

Walking Dad · Jan 14, 2011

Multiclass Characters

Defense and reputation entries are now obsolete and we will use the Pathfinder skill mechanic.

Advanced Classes

Advanced classes will be over-viewed later.
As general rule: Ignore the defense and reputation entries. Reduce skill prerequisite by 3 (Pathfinder skill rules) and add 'Character level 3'.

Ordinaries

Incorporate Action Point Choices. The rest can stay as it is.

thejc · Jan 16, 2011

Walking Dad said:
Basics

No need for changes here

Ability Scores

Not many changes here, but it should probably spelled out what other traits are affected by them. Should be replaced with contents of this page:
Ability Scores - Pathfinder_OGC

To keep compatibility with 'normal' d20 modern we will not change anything here. Later some references will have to be replaced

Defense

Now, this becomes very interesting. Shall we keep it this way. I personally say that I don't like both a class bonus to defense and armor adding to it.
Let's do a Armor As Damage Reduction variant for this. We also will replace natural armor with a Damage Reduction (BTW, the finished product would really benefit from a Common Terms chapter), so no extra 'Touch attack' entry is needed.

Saving Throws

We will leave it this way for know. But we will maybe want to add an option for direct rolls, making Saving Throws more similar to Defense.
(Saving Throws And Save Scores)

Action Points

I frankly don't like them personally. Having a renewable resource base on XP only felt wrong to me. They also give to few options. I prefer more these rules for them, but with a different acquisition mechanic. But which mechanic is more optional and best thought about later.

Quick thought about the ability scores. Lets say for a "power" like super strength will that fit into your abilities or powers. I have always had trouble dealing with that in d20. During the build if you know you are making a brick/tank type how does the "power" affect the base score and such. I mean when does the "super" kick in? And further more if a character transforms(i.e. hulk, Donald Blake-Thor, Colossus) why spend "points" on base scores that are non essential to a majority of the game play. Granted you always have the krypto affected superman, or Dr. Banner syndrome.

Just curious how you planned doing that part of it, since I get stuck on it from time to time.

Walking Dad · Jan 16, 2011

The 'Enhanced (Ability)' power will be full described later. I make a change from the anime d20 default by making them something different to 'standard' abilities. 'Enhanced (Intelligence)' for example will not add to your skill points / level. Enhanced (Strength) will be similar.

thejc · Jan 16, 2011

I see. It tends to be more of a translation problem for me I think. I just find it redundant. That I might buy a strength of 16 and then buy a super strength of 30 but the 16 I previously bought has nothing to do with my super strength.

Sounds pretty cool though. I just started playing super heros with my son. He's nine I actually broke out Marvels Super Hero RPG from the 80s and he loves it. I wanted something simple(though I had to mod it to get it that way) that he didn't have to look through a bunch of stats for any answer to what he can or can't do.

So I am interested in what you are doing here.

RangerWickett · Jan 16, 2011

Have you looked at some of the existing d20-based superhero systems -- not just the standalone games, but the ones that tried to add superpowers to existing D&D and D20 Modern? There were a lot of small press ones, including one I co-wrote, Four-Color to Fantasy, which added a new "Hero" class who got 'hero points' which you'd assign to buy superpowers. A sort of D&D meets GURPS sorta thing.

I wonder if some of that design might save you some time; it looks like the mechanics are somewhat compatible to what you've posted already in this thread, and I'd like to spare you the hassle of engineering it all again. It was a long process for me the first time around.

I wish you luck.

Designing OGL Supers for d20 modern

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