Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

Cleon · Feb 16, 2017

freyar said:
I'd be ok with adding the Halfling traits, including Halfling Blood.

Updating the Ovinaur Working Draft.

freyar said:
For the weapons, a composite shortbow is ok. I'm torn between a rapier and something a little less usual, like the light handaxe, so I'll leave that up to you.

How about a shortsword? I can't recall the last time we statted a monster with that weapon.

freyar said:
You know, the discussion about Halfling traits makes me wonder if these should be size Small rather than Medium. If they're Medium, we should definitely put them on the Small side.

I was thinking they'd be one size bigger than a Halfling in the same way a Centaur is one size bigger than a Human. They are basically pint-sized centaurs except with goat-bodies instead of horse-bodies and their original entry makes no mention of them being smaller than humans. Well, unless being little is one of their "common halfling abilities".

Come to think of it, what size category are goats in D&D? Their AD&D 2E Monstrous Manual entry doesn't specify a size.

Ah, here we go - in the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia a goat is a Man-sized 1-2 HD Herd Animal. That seems the best match to the Ovinaur since they are Mystaran creatures.

It's worth mentioning there are 3E stats for Mountain Goats in Dungeon #82 that says they're Small Animals - although they're also 3 feet tall and have 1d6 damage horns, which sounds Medium to me. The only other official 3E stats for goats I could find where for figurines of wondrous power so didn't seem relevant.

freyar · Feb 22, 2017

Shortsword is fine, and I will agree with a centaur-like Medium, but I'd make their actual size a bit on the smaller end in the flavor text.

Skills: they get 48 skill points, or 8 at the 6 max ranks. I guess I'd go with Balance, Climb, Concentration, Jump, Knowledge (religion), Listen, and Spot. Maybe Survival for the last one?

Cleon · Feb 23, 2017

freyar said:
Shortsword is fine, and I will agree with a centaur-like Medium, but I'd make their actual size a bit on the smaller end in the flavor text.

Updating the Ovinaur Working Draft.

freyar said:
Skills: they get 48 skill points, or 8 at the 6 max ranks. I guess I'd go with Balance, Climb, Concentration, Jump, Knowledge (religion), Listen, and Spot. Maybe Survival for the last one?

Let's see, we gave the Goatling ranks in Balance, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Listen, Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft and Spot +4.

Ovinaurs are more "native" than Goatlings since they're part halfling so it makes sense dropping the Knowledge (the planes), but I'm wondering whether Knowledge (arcana) or Spellcraft makes any sense for them?

Also, ovinaurs are noted as being "very poor rope climbers". That's hard to represent in 3E.

Hmm… I guess we could have "An ovinaur has a -5 racial penalty to Climb checks when using a rope." That matches up with the 5-point DC progressions of Climb checks in the SRD. i.e. climbing a wall with a rope is normally DC 5, or DC 0 if the rope is knotted, but is one degree harder for an ovinaur.

So how about putting 6 ranks apiece in Balance, Climb, Concentration, Jump, Listen, Spot plus 3 ranks apiece in Knowledge (arcane), Knowledge (religion), Spellcraft and Survival?

Actually, I'm thinking a few ranks in Tumble might not be amiss. I'd be happy to either swap one of the 3-rank skills for Tumble or reduce Concentration, Listen & Spot to 5-ranks and add 3 ranks in Tumble.

i.e. one of the following:

Skill Ranks #1: Balance 6, Climb 6, Concentration 6, Jump 6, Knowledge (arcane) 3, Knowledge (religion) 3, Listen 6, Spot 6, Spellcraft 3, Survival 3
Skill Ranks #2A: Balance 6, Climb 6, Concentration 6, Jump 6, Knowledge (religion) 3, Listen 6, Spellcraft 3, Spot 6, Survival 3, Tumble 3
Skill Ranks #2B: Balance 6, Climb 6, Concentration 6, Jump 6, Knowledge (arcane) 3, Listen 6, Spellcraft 3, Spot 6, Survival 3, Tumble 3
Skill Ranks #2C: Balance 6, Climb 6, Concentration 6, Jump 6, Knowledge (arcane) 3, Knowledge (religion) 3, Listen 6, Spot 6, Survival 3, Tumble 3
Skill Ranks #2D: Balance 6, Climb 6, Concentration 6, Jump 6, Knowledge (arcane) 3, Knowledge (religion) 3, Listen 6, Spellcraft 3, Spot 6, Tumble 3
Skill Ranks #3: Balance 6, Climb 6, Concentration 5, Jump 6, Knowledge (arcane) 3, Knowledge (religion) 3, Listen 5, Spot 5, Spellcraft 3, Survival 3, Tumble 3

Hmm… upon reflection, I think we should give them some ranks in Hide and Move Silently since Halflings have those skills, plus they have racial bonuses in them.

They don't have much in the way of spells so we can spare some more ranks of Concentration. Also, the Goatling has 5 ranks in Balance, Climb, Listen and Spot plus a -1 Wisdom adjustment. If we give the Ovinaur 5 ranks in Balance & Climb and 4 in Listen & Spot it'll still have better Balance and alertness-skills because of its +1 Wisdom and Dexterity mods.

So how about:

Skill Ranks #4: Balance 5, Climb 5, Concentration 3, Hide 3, Jump 6, Knowledge (arcane) 3, Knowledge (religion) 3, Listen 4, Move Silently 3, Spot 4, Spellcraft 3, Survival 3, Tumble 3

Skills: An ovinaur has a +2 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks and a +6 racial bonus to Jump checks. In addition, it can always choose to take 10 on Jump checks, and can use its Dexterity modifier on Jump checks if this is better than its Strength modifier.

An ovinaur has a -5 racial penalty to Climb checks when using a rope.

freyar · Mar 1, 2017

Well, I like Know. (religion) due to the sin-eating business (seems religious to me!), but I don't see that they're particularly arcane types. The original document says they're primarily Fighters, after all. So I'd go with your Option #3 and change Know (arcana) to Hide and Spellcraft to Move Silently. Does that work for you? The racial bonus section looks good.

Cleon · Mar 2, 2017

freyar said:
Well, I like Know. (religion) due to the sin-eating business (seems religious to me!), but I don't see that they're particularly arcane types. The original document says they're primarily Fighters, after all. So I'd go with your Option #3 and change Know (arcana) to Hide and Spellcraft to Move Silently. Does that work for you? The racial bonus section looks good.

So you're talking:

Skill Ranks #5: Balance 5, Climb 5, Concentration 3, Hide 6, Jump 6, Knowledge (religion) 3, Listen 4, Move Silently 6, Spot 4, Survival 3, Tumble 3

Skills: An ovinaur has a +2 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks and a +6 racial bonus to Jump checks. In addition, it can always choose to take 10 on Jump checks, and can use its Dexterity modifier on Jump checks if this is better than its Strength modifier.

An ovinaur has a -5 racial penalty to Climb checks when using a rope.

Hmm… I don't think I like the maxed-out Hide and Move Silently. 3E Fighter-types aren't so dedicated on Stealth, after all, and we've already got a racial bonus.

Maybe know 2 points each off Hide and Move Silently and add a point apiece to Climb, Knowledge (religion), Survival and Tumble?

Skill Ranks #6: Balance 5, Climb 6, Concentration 3, Hide 4, Jump 6, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen 4, Move Silently 4, Spot 4, Survival 4, Tumble 4

I'm about to call it a night. Hopefully we'll get it sorted tomorrow.

freyar · Mar 8, 2017

Only a week later! Option #6 will work for me just fine.

Feats: Weapon Finesse seems like a must-have, and I believe we discussed it already.

What about Combat Reflexes to let them get their kicks in a bit more?

Cleon · Mar 9, 2017

freyar said:
Only a week later! Option #6 will work for me just fine.

Upon reflection I'll swap the Balance and Tumble skill ranks around since that makes the synergy work better. 5 ranks in Tumble gives +2 to Balance and Jump, which is worth doing.

Updating the Ovinaur Working Draft.

freyar said:
Feats: Weapon Finesse seems like a must-have, and I believe we discussed it already. What about Combat Reflexes to let them get their kicks in a bit more?

Yes, I think we did.

I suppose Combat Reflexes ties in with the original's ability to "kick any time they score a modified 20+ to hit with their normal attacks" which we transformed into Opportunity Kick.

It's not much of an "any time" if they can only do it once per round, so increasing their attacks of opportunity makes sense.

Updating the Ovinaur Working Draft.

Can we decide on their armour? We've got chain shirt plus buckler but I'm wondering about maybe making it leather plus a masterwork buckler instead to remove the Armor Check penalty.

Oh dang it. I have a nasty suspicion I forgot to include the Armor Check penalty in the goatling's skills.

I'd better check…

Cleon · Mar 9, 2017

Cleon said:
Oh dang it. I have a nasty suspicion I forgot to include the Armor Check penalty in the goatling's skills.

I'd better check…

Yes I did forget the Armor Check penalty on the Goatling.

I've corrected the Goatling Working Draft and the change is included in the next CC update I'll send to Darjr.

abe ray · Mar 9, 2017

has anyone ever done the isolated humans from the original creature catalog?

freyar · Mar 10, 2017

I thought we'd already decided on the chain shirt and buckler for the armor. Given their big advantages for Jump, I don't think I'm quite so concerned about the check penalty, but you can convince me...