Detect magic vs illusion spells

Piratecat · Nov 11, 2002

I just got asked this question by a friend, and I thought I'd ask folks here what their opinion is.

What happens when you look at an illusion with Detect Magic up? Do you see it as an illusion? If you do, is it ridiculous that a 0 level spell could foil any level illusion by revealing it for what it is?

He tends to think that illusions shouldn't detect on detect magic, as that would nerf them too badly. I'm not sure I agree. Whatcha think?

And thanks!

Stalker0 · Nov 11, 2002

Yeah, detect magic would be able to tell you the school of the magic aura, which would come up as illusion on the 3rd round of concentration.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean the spell is foiled. It won't tell you if a part of the wall or the whole wall is an illusion, or perhaps its something solid that's been made to look like a wall. I would give a hefty bonus to the will save, but its not an auto success.

Shayuri · Nov 11, 2002

Well, bear in mind that a Detect Magic isn't instant for one thing.

If you spend 3 rounds peering at said illusion, AND make the needed Spellcraft roll, then you could determine that the thing in question radiated magic of the illusion type.

That doesn't necessarily mean that it IS an illusion though. Detect Magic doesn't identify specific effects, only school of magic.

It could be an individual warded with Change Self, for example. Or otherwise concealed/altered through use of illusion. Or a Shadow Conjuration.

It certainly wouldn't qualify for an automatic save against that illusion.

Somewhere I read once in an FAQ where someone asked if a Detect spell could be used to find invisible creatures. The answer was a guarded, "Yes...but."

It worked out to the idea that if the creature AND you stayed still for the 3 rounds needed to pinpoint source, you could tell what square the creature was in...allowing you to attack with the usual 50% miss chance. However, if you OR IT moved, you had to start all over again.

I think detecting illusions this way would follow the same basic rule. Three rounds is a long time in battle.

Malin Genie · Nov 11, 2002

Perhaps it can be handled by separating the sensory and the intellectual. The opponent may know it's an illusion, but his senses are telling him there's a wall (or demon, or whatever) there. To paraphrase the 1e PHB description of Wisdom, I may know I don't need a cigarette, but equally my body may know that it does...and who usually wins that contest?

So I would allow an automatic Will save, with a bonus of +4, corresponding to the bonus you are given if a fellow party member tells you that something is an illusion [phb158], but if the save is not made the "intellect" cannot convince the "senses" that it is not there; and while I might allow a character failing the save to cautiously approach a wall they "know" to be illusory and prod it with a quarterstaff, I wouldn't allow them to run 'through' it.

How about the following

Double-Bluff [Metamagic]
Prerequisistes: Spell Focus (Illusion), Spellcraft (8 ranks), Bluff (3 ranks)

The metamagicked spell registers as an illusion to magical examination (for example, detect magic or arcane sight) and even registers as illusory and becomes translucent under the aegis of spells such as true seeing unless a Will save (DC = spell DC) is made.

Similarly, the verbal and/or somatic components of the spell are altered such that unless a Will save is made an opposing caster will misidentify the spell as silent, minor or major image on a successful Spellcraft check.

This metamagic may only be applied to a spell that brings something into existence that a major image could reasonably simulate; for example summon monster or wall of fire but not magic missile.

The altered spell uses a slot one level higher than the base spell.

Try to walk through the 'illusory' wall of fire now; heh heh heh...

Detect magic vs illusion spells

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian

Stalker0

Legend

Shayuri

First Post

Malin Genie

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