Dungeon Delves question

Lord Zardoz · Mar 7, 2011

What is your experience with the delve adventures in this book?

I have run several of them; Level 1, 2, 3, and 5. I ran the level 5 delve today for my group (4 players at 7th level, 5th player was absent). The delve damn near kicked their ass. I also had a TPK in the delve with the Goblin tower. The room with the snipers and the Goblin witch caster sent them running out of the delve twice. Once they did fight to the top, they were then killed. Death by Defenstration (ie: they got thrown off the top of the damn thing).

I tend to run my game wiht a rule of 3. I will run if I get 3 to show up. I figured the Goblin tower was due to me not scaling down the encounters for fewer players. But the 5th level delve nearly killed my 7th level players.

Are the delves in this book just much more difficult then they ought to be?

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Aplus · Mar 7, 2011

Lord Zardoz said:
But the 5th level delve nearly killed my 7th level players.

I've never used that book, but that sounds perfect to me. You want to challenge them don't you? Also, since they are delves with just 3 encounters or whatever, I think they are purposely tuned to be a bit harder than what you would find in a full-length module.

Hawke · Mar 7, 2011

Yeah they can be pretty tough, though I think it's designed to really challenge you in three encounters. You may need to tweak them a bit, too, based on your party. Some of the ones with a lot of snipers can be particularly deadly if you have smaller parties or parties w/o any good ranged options they may need some tweaking.

Might want to have a healing potion as loot ready for encounter 2 if they seem to be in some trouble by that point.

D'karr · Mar 7, 2011

The idea behind that book was to provide the DM with ready-made Dungeon Delves, in the same format and purpose that premiered at GenCon, and was seen at conventions for many years.

The encounters are designed to be challenging. They may be level appropriate, but they will be tough. In the convention delves the idea was to complete them in the time allocated, usually 1 hour. For every encounter you finished there were token rewards that could be exchanged for exclusive "cards", promo miniatures, T-Shirts, etc.

Very few tables ever completed the entire delve in time or without heavy casualties.

As such, these were designed as competitive events. In these, the DM is much more of a neutral arbiter, and if a monster would kill a PC the DM will do so. His role is to really put the screws to the adventuring party, not necessarily to advance an overarching plot or story.

You can make use of them as adventures, but they are extremely limited in scope, and probably should be modified. The PCs should know what they're getting into, if these are used as adventures. Retreat to fight another day is a good strategy in all of these if they are not used for competitive play.

aco175 · Mar 7, 2011

I have run several of them, mostly under level 10. I found that my players did not have a difficult time with them. They were run at level, Do not know if this makes a big difference to your scenario. I have a ballanced party with only half being min/maxers.

Lord Zardoz · Mar 7, 2011

Near TPK events in my games are something I enjoy. I actually like it when the players are looking carefully at their sheets trying to figure out a way to get through the fight alive. The only problem is when I am not expecting it to happen.

The goblin tower delve was run with a Warlord, a Monk, and a Swordmage. Considering it was short handed as a group, the near TPK did not surprise me at all in retrospect.

The Level 5 delve was run with a Druid, Monk, Ranger, and a Shaman, all 2 levels higher than the level of the delve. Both the Ranger and the Monk are multi-classed to cleric. (turns out that after 5 levels of nearly eating it every other encounter encouraged some multi-classing and taking utility powers that allow the use of a healing surge. After that, the new guy joined with a Shaman. Survival in general has since dramatically improved). Even short by one player, the amount of healing powers and being 2 levels higher then the monsters should have made things much easier.

Instead the Wights took down a few surges in the first room, and in the 2nd the Monk was rocked by the combination of 2 Chillborn Zombies with 3 Blazing Skeletons. The zombies were doing 10 aura damage (5 each cumulative), and immobilizing him while hitting him hard and inflicting 5 ongoing cold damage. Starting your turn taking 15 damage and being immobilized is the kind of brutal awesome I like as a DM. The 7th level party handled it. A 5th level party would not have, I think. By the time they reached the last room, the PC's did not have too much healing, and there was a necromancer that could add 1 skeletal minion per turn and use a burst 2 power that would heal the Zombie Hulk.

In any event, I like the book, but I am curious to see if anyone else has had a high TPK rate with it. My own DM'ing habits are brutal enough that I do not know how much of it is me and how much of it is the book.

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Olgar Shiverstone · Mar 8, 2011

Which book?

Lord Zardoz · Mar 8, 2011

Olgar Shiverstone said:
Which book?

Dungeon Delves.
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Dungeon-Delve-4th-Supplement-Adventure/dp/0786951397/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1299547633&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: Dungeon Delve: A 4th Edition D&D Supplement (D&D Adventure) (9780786951390): David Noonan, Bill Slavicsek: Books[/ame]

It is a collection of mini-adventures, 3 or 4 encounters each, with Delves going up to level 30.

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Olgar Shiverstone · Mar 8, 2011

Dungeon Delve as a book of dungeon delves seems ... accurate yet uninspiring.

Lord Zardoz · Mar 10, 2011

Sometimes accurate is what counts. I actually like the book, as you can drop a Delve into the middle of an ongoing adventure when you want filler. Each delve gives mapped out encounters, some tactical notes, and possible hooks to build from.

I generally use it to help flesh out my own adventures and / or to add some easy content to a game. Aside from the difficulty of the delves being a bit harsher then expected in some cases, they are generally balanced well enough. The encounters also offer a bit of location specific bits like difficult terran, trap elements, etc. This makes them superior to just dropping a balanced encounter in a room.

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