"Necessary Evil" OOC

perrinmiller · Apr 3, 2011

Luck (Leadership) ? Inspired power is like leadership, maybe.

Arkhandus · Apr 3, 2011

Thanee said:
Two things I am wondering about...

Wouldn't that be a Standard Action rather than a Full Action (starting from Free Action)? You could probably take Action 3, to lower the Cost from 2 to 1.

I think you make a damage save using the duplicate's Toughness bonus (replacing your own bonus (which shouldn't be any difference, anyways, since it is a duplicate of yourself), not adding it to your Will save), at least that's what Ultimate Power says.

Bye
Thanee

1. Ah yes, I did make a slight miscalculation there. It's the 2-point per rank version of Morph, reduced to 1-point per rank by a two-step increase in activation time after factoring in the +1/rank cost of the Duration extra.......so it should be a standard action at that cost. I did mean to have it take a full action, though, so I should make the flaw Action -3 instead, to lower the cost by a point and spend that point elsewhere.

2. Yes it is a damage save, using the normal save DC (15 + damage), but using a Will save instead of Toughness. The Feedback Flaw says "with a bonus to the save equal to your duplicate's Toughness save bonus." If you check the Flaws section of the Powers chapter, it's made even clearer in the general Feedback flaw's description, where the example makes it clear that you add the Toughness save bonus from your created object/creature on top of your normal Will save bonus. Otherwise it would be worth more than a -1 Flaw. I checked both Ultimate Power and the core rulebook.

Arkhandus · Apr 3, 2011

Walking Dad said:
I have not checked every PP cost, but two things:

- Mind Shield falls under my Impervious house rule, so you will automatically succeed on will saves up to DC 13, not 16.

- Not sure I like the added mind reading. It seems another extra added as an AP with no clear connection to the overall concept. If you would play a psychic, mo problem, but Gemini is already a crossbred of the Mimic and Duplicator archetype. Adding Mindreading is maybe a bit much IMHO,but I will not disallow it.

1. OK, I forgot to re-check your houserules for Impervious, so I forgot about that change, though I remember seeing something about it now that you've mentioned it. Gemini's mind is somewhat fragmented and he's learned to retreat from consciousness for safety in his own mind, retreating from reality for a time, and these factors, combined with his secretive nature make it difficult for others to get a firm grip on his mind or bust into the labyrinthine, compartmentalized segments of his mind where his memories are secured. He only feels truly safe within his own mind; the outside world is cruel, nasty, filthy, unjust, and repugnant to him. He just has to live in it and deal with it until he discovers the full potential of his psionic talents, as the leader of The Zodiac promised to teach him........

2. Mind Reading is something that fits more into Gemini's psionic talents for analyzing other entities/matter and understanding their nature, the basis for his psionic mimicry and psionic construction/duplication. Mimicry and duplication are just the aspects that his life experiences, needs, and desires drew out first. The tip of the iceberg, so to speak, as he may eventually develop a greater variety of psionic manipulations over matter and energy. Gemini is a psionic prodigy who just lacks the experience, training, and wisdom to realize his full potential yet, and thus serves as a pawn for others in exchange for scraps of training and opportunities to practice his powers.

The leader of The Zodiac is even more mentally-resistant than Gemini so he can't just steal the info from his boss....... Which may be one reason why he goes solo or joins up with this group of different supervillains/ex-villains and such, aside from wanting to avoid alien domination (if anybody's gonna rule the world, he figures, it'll be him and The Zodiac, or just him.........if he ever manages to realize his full power and overcome his boss in a coup).

Whether or not Gemini ever advances or gains new powers, of course, is up to the GM and how the campaign devleops. But any advancement early on will be limited to improving the powers he already knows how to use and perhaps improving his basic combat training.

Thanee · Apr 3, 2011

Arkhandus said:
2. Yes it is a damage save, using the normal save DC (15 + damage), but using a Will save instead of Toughness. The Feedback Flaw says "with a bonus to the save equal to your duplicate's Toughness save bonus." If you check the Flaws section of the Powers chapter, it's made even clearer in the general Feedback flaw's description, where the example makes it clear that you add the Toughness save bonus from your created object/creature on top of your normal Will save bonus. Otherwise it would be worth more than a -1 Flaw. I checked both Ultimate Power and the core rulebook.

Hmm... weird. My UP says something completely different than my Core book does.

Bye
Thanee

P.S. In other news... I ordered the MM3 book yesterday, will get it next week. Curious to see what changed there.

And yes, I am aware we do not use it here.

Walking Dad · Apr 3, 2011

From UP (p 104)

FEEDBACK –1 MODIFIER
You suffer pain when a manifestation of your effect is damaged.
This flaw only applies to effects with physical (or apparently physical)
manifestations, such as Create Object, Duplication, Illusion,
Snare, or Summon, for example. If your power’s manifestation is
damaged, make a saving throw against non-lethal damage equal
to the attack’s damage, using the manifestation’s Toughness save
bonus or power rank in place of your own. For example, if you create
a Toughness 12 object and it is attacked for +15 damage, you
must make a save against +15 damage with a +12 bonus (the
object’s Toughness) in place of your normal Toughness save.

I will use this version. I see neither a mention of a Will save, nor of adding anything. If your book entry differs, please post it.

Thanee · Apr 4, 2011

Walking Dad said:
I see neither a mention of a Will save, nor of adding anything. If your book entry differs, please post it.

You find it in the Core rulebook.

Bye
Thanee

Walking Dad · Apr 4, 2011

But the actual feedback flaw doesn't mention it....

I will allow using Will save instead of Toughness as a +0 extra, but not adding anything together.

Thanee · Apr 4, 2011

Walking Dad said:
But the actual feedback flaw doesn't mention it...

Yep, that one is like the one in UP. The stuff with Will and adding two bonuses together is only listed under Duplication (and only in the Core rules).

That can only be an error. It seems really weird as a mechanic to add two save bonuses together.

Bye
Thanee

Herobizkit · Apr 5, 2011

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I believe that things just aren't going well with this game, and I don't have the patience to learn it all. I am respectfully withdrawing. Thanks for the hard work, [MENTION=59043]Walking Dad[/MENTION], and I'll see you all in other games.

Arkhandus · Apr 5, 2011

That's really wierd........I ordered Pocket Ultimate Power last year and the copy I received should be the latest printing from that time, AFAIK. Pocket Ultimate Power, the Mastermind's Manual, AND the M&M 2E core book that I have all say "added to your normal Will save bonus" in the description, unlike what you posted for the Feedback Flaw. And I'm not just talking about in the Duplication power's description, I'm talking about the general Feedback flaw's description in each of my books.

I wonder if I got screwed with old copies of early printings, even though I just bought the books last year and in late 2009? My Mastermind's Manual seems to indicate it was printed in 2006, but my copy of Pocket Ultimate Power indicates it was printed in 2009, and my copy of the M&M 2E core rulebook says it's the Fourth Printing and from 2008.

The feedback flaw detailed in there says "You suffer pain when a manifestation of your power is damaged. This flaw only applies to powers with physical manifestations, such as Create Object, Duplication, Snare, or Summon, for example. If your power's manifestation is damaged, make a Will save against damage equal to the attack's damage, with a bonus equal to the manifestation's Toughness. For example, if you create a Toughness 12 object and it is attacked for +15 damage, you must make a Will save against +15 damage with a +12 bonus (the object's Toughness) added to your normal Will save bonus." My copies of the Mastermind's Manual and Pocket Ultimate Power have the same wording (only one or two different words), but each says that it's added to your normal Will save bonus and each has the same example.