My PF Questions

SeaJay · Apr 30, 2011

IronWolf said:
I have not tinkered with it at all. From my experience low damage has not really been an issue. At 9th level we are starting to get to the point the optional massive damage rule can come into effect.

I think a lot of my misgivings, or all actually of it, stems from the fact that I like my players to have a healthy respect in combat. Not running scared, just enough to make them reallise, that guy with the dagger 'could' make my life very difficult. The fact is, right now, a dagger wielding opponent is more or less laughed at.

Erekose · Apr 30, 2011

Malgwyn said:
Has anyone tinkered with the damage system in d&d? . . . Damage for me, for the most part is too low . . .

Conan RPG has a higher damage system - eg all weapons tend to do a higher damage die (shortsword is d8 rather than 1d6) but I suspect this is an artefact of armour providing damage resistance . . .

Dingo333 · May 1, 2011

Personally, I don't think damage is too low, true I also look for way after way to maximize my own damage output, but at the same time I am building glass cannons

Like today, I let a new person (new to the group and PF) play one of my backup charracters, A barbarian (really liked the concept and is sticking with that sheet). If he had taken the full attack at the end of his charge (pounce via rage power) he could have ripped the troll in 2 and killed it (no fire or acid damage, but he also didn't use the fix for that). His 1 claw did 40 damage and he didn't take his second claw attack or bite (this was also not a crit).

The troll next to the one he attacked, attacked him and dealt ~50 back (3 hits, and rend). Yeah he has almost 300hp, but a fighter in the group had 2 on her and was down to 20ish from ~130 from 2 trolls in 1 round.

Trolls are a CR 8 creature, maybe they were advanced, but we almost lost that fighter and 2 other characters did die (they drowned after being tossed into a nearby river by the trolls)

Maybe it is the dungeon we are in but today made the 4th and 5th death during the crawl (level 6 of a 16 level dungeon). So is damage output low? You wouldn't be able to tell from our group thats for sure

SeaJay · May 1, 2011

Dingo333 said:
Personally, I don't think damage is too low, true I also look for way after way to maximize my own damage output, but at the same time I am building glass cannons

Like today, I let a new person (new to the group and PF) play one of my backup charracters, A barbarian (really liked the concept and is sticking with that sheet). If he had taken the full attack at the end of his charge (pounce via rage power) he could have ripped the troll in 2 and killed it (no fire or acid damage, but he also didn't use the fix for that). His 1 claw did 40 damage and he didn't take his second claw attack or bite (this was also not a crit).

The troll next to the one he attacked, attacked him and dealt ~50 back (3 hits, and rend). Yeah he has almost 300hp, but a fighter in the group had 2 on her and was down to 20ish from ~130 from 2 trolls in 1 round.

Trolls are a CR 8 creature, maybe they were advanced, but we almost lost that fighter and 2 other characters did die (they drowned after being tossed into a nearby river by the trolls)

Maybe it is the dungeon we are in but today made the 4th and 5th death during the crawl (level 6 of a 16 level dungeon). So is damage output low? You wouldn't be able to tell from our group thats for sure

If that's the case, then yes, damage is deadly enough, but I was coming more from the player character's point of view. Wherein a 5th level Ranger could only attack twice with his bow (the rapid fire feat) and only do 1d8 damage twice. Against 5 HD opponents, this wasn't all that much.

Shisumo · May 1, 2011

Malgwyn said:
Wherein a 5th level Ranger could only attack twice with his bow (the rapid fire feat) and only do 1d8 damage twice. Against 5 HD opponents, this wasn't all that much.

Every time you say that, it looks wrong to me. Would you mind posting your build? I ask because I would expect a 5th level archer ranger to be doing something more like 1d8+7 or so per shot, and I wonder if maybe something is getting overlooked somewhere.

SeaJay · May 1, 2011

Shisumo said:
Every time you say that, it looks wrong to me. Would you mind posting your build? I ask because I would expect a 5th level archer ranger to be doing something more like 1d8+7 or so per shot, and I wonder if maybe something is getting overlooked somewhere.

I should add we are playing 3.5

I don't have the build with me, the GM keeps the character sheets. Can I ask where the +7 damage comes from?

Shisumo · May 1, 2011

Malgwyn said:
I should add we are playing 3.5

Ah, okay. That explains at least part of it.

Malgwyn said:
I don't have the build with me, the GM keeps the character sheets. Can I ask where the +7 damage comes from?

Well, a lot of it depends on build, of course, but a "reasonably" optimized* Pathfinder ranger by 5th level would probably have a composite (+2) bow and the Strength to back it up, a +1 bow, and be using Deadly Aim for a -2 to hit and a +4 to damage. Deadly Aim really is pretty key for archer power in Pathfinder; it makes a pretty hefty difference.

*Pathfinder, like most variants of 3.x, rewards system mastery. I am not advocating for One True Wayism, however - play the way you want.

IronWolf · May 1, 2011

Malgwyn said:
I should add we are playing 3.5

I don't have the build with me, the GM keeps the character sheets. Can I ask where the +7 damage comes from?

Topic drift....

In the last 3.5 campaign I played in I was doing better than 1d8 at 5th level. Search around for some swift hunter builds. I found the build pretty good and not too cheesy (some exceptions).

Scott DeWar · May 1, 2011

Shisumo said:
Well, a lot of it depends on build, of course, but a "reasonably" optimized* Pathfinder ranger by 5th level would probably have a composite (+2) bow and the Strength to back it up, a +1 bow, and be using Deadly Aim for a -2 to hit and a +4 to damage. Deadly Aim really is pretty key for archer power in Pathfinder; it makes a pretty hefty difference.

*Pathfinder, like most variants of 3.x, rewards system mastery. I am not advocating for One True Wayism, however - play the way you want.

even as 3.5 you could have a strength bo of +2 or +3 w/ str to back it up and +1 magic as well, so there should be a +3 on that d8 damage at the least as a level 5 character.

The only explanation is that the dm is running a low magic and low gold reasource game.

SeaJay · May 1, 2011

Scott DeWar said:
even as 3.5 you could have a strength bo of +2 or +3 w/ str to back it up and +1 magic as well, so there should be a +3 on that d8 damage at the least as a level 5 character.

The only explanation is that the dm is running a low magic and low gold reasource game.

My ranger had Strength 10 and no plus modifiers