My PF Questions

SeaJay · Jul 1, 2012

I have a Class Skill that is designated ‘Trained Only’, but I have not put any ranks into it. can I still use the skill?

SteelDraco · Jul 1, 2012

There are no public plans for a new edition, and it's my understanding that they've stated they don't want to do one for a pretty long while.

Based on http://paizo.com/products/btpy88yj?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Core-Rulebook, I believe they're on the fifth printing of the Core Rulebook.

Regarding trained-only skills, no, you can't use a trained-only skill you haven't put points into. That's the definition of trained-only. Any skill checks you make automatically fail.

SeaJay · Jul 1, 2012

SteelDraco said:
There are no public plans for a new edition, and it's my understanding that they've stated they don't want to do one for a pretty long while.

Based on http://paizo.com/products/btpy88yj?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Core-Rulebook, I believe they're on the fifth printing of the Core Rulebook.

Regarding trained-only skills, no, you can't use a trained-only skill you haven't put points into. That's the definition of trained-only. Any skill checks you make automatically fail.

Ok thanks for the information.

I was a bit confused with the 'Trained Only' skill, because it was a Class Skill for my character.

billd91 · Jul 1, 2012

Malgwyn said:
I was a bit confused with the 'Trained Only' skill, because it was a Class Skill for my character.

The class skill aspect makes it easier for you to be good at it... once you've invested any training at all. You get a free +3 for being trained in a class skill bonus when you invest your first skill rank into it. That's something that other characters who don't have that skill as a class skill cannot get.

SeaJay · Jul 2, 2012

Don't mean to be a pain here, but the xp award on PAGE 398 is still bothering me. To recap...

Using the chart, 4 CR8 creatures (worth 4,800 XP each) are equivalent to a CR 12 creature (worth 19,200 XP).

Nice and simple, the math works perfectly: 4,800 x 4 = 19,200.

Using the same formula, table 12.3 tells me that 6CR creatures should have a value equal to CR+5. But as mentioned, when I use this formula (multiplying 6 CR creatures at 19,200 xp) I get 115,200 xp and not 102,400 as shown on the table.

I've been told it's just a guideline, but that's a massive difference in xp I'm handing out there; almost 13,000. That's not something I can just sweep under the carpet so to speak.

billd91 · Jul 2, 2012

Malgwyn said:
Using the same formula, table 12.3 tells me that 6CR creatures should have a value equal to CR+5. But as mentioned, when I use this formula (multiplying 6 CR creatures at 19,200 xp) I get 115,200 xp and not 102,400 as shown on the table.

I've been told it's just a guideline, but that's a massive difference in xp I'm handing out there; almost 13,000. That's not something I can just sweep under the carpet so to speak.

You notice that the table works perfectly around powers of 2. Double the creatures, add 2 to the CR of the encounter. What you also have to notice is that the math simply can't be quite as tidy for increases that aren't based on a power of 2. The approximation really is fine. The difference in XPs you're giving out isn't that massive given the numbers that PCs need to advance.

If you want to be more strict about the XP budget, use the table to generate how many XPs the encounter will be worth and then use some mixed CR creatures to get it. And if you have a remainder in your budget after picking your main monsters, don't sweat it and drop it. It'll be close enough.

SeaJay · Jul 3, 2012

billd91 said:
You notice that the table works perfectly around powers of 2. Double the creatures, add 2 to the CR of the encounter. What you also have to notice is that the math simply can't be quite as tidy for increases that aren't based on a power of 2. The approximation really is fine. The difference in XPs you're giving out isn't that massive given the numbers that PCs need to advance.

If you want to be more strict about the XP budget, use the table to generate how many XPs the encounter will be worth and then use some mixed CR creatures to get it. And if you have a remainder in your budget after picking your main monsters, don't sweat it and drop it. It'll be close enough.

Good points.

Though I'm probably looking at this from the wrong angle, I can't for the life of me think why Paizo would use such a a flaky guideline. I mean, my very first attempt at using their advice, came up with the wrong result.

BobROE · Jul 3, 2012

Malgwyn said:
I've been told it's just a guideline, but that's a massive difference in xp I'm handing out there; almost 13,000. That's not something I can just sweep under the carpet so to speak.

Once you divide it by the number of players, 3250 for 4 (or 2166 for 6) it's not all that much XP when a 12th level character needs 95000XP to get from 12th to 13th.

SeaJay · Jul 7, 2012

Malgwyn said:
Don't mean to be a pain here, but the xp award on PAGE 398 is still bothering me. To recap...

Using the chart, 4 CR8 creatures (worth 4,800 XP each) are equivalent to a CR 12 creature (worth 19,200 XP).

Nice and simple, the math works perfectly: 4,800 x 4 = 19,200.

Using the same formula, table 12.3 tells me that 6CR creatures should have a value equal to CR+5. But as mentioned, when I use this formula (multiplying 6 CR creatures at 19,200 xp) I get 115,200 xp and not 102,400 as shown on the table.

I apologise because I think I have been a bit stupid here.

I did the calculation on the calculator (as mentioned above), and the result wasn't the same as what's written in tabel 12-3 (on page 398). I think that's where my mistake came in.

The calculator result doesn't need to be the same as the result in table 12-3, because the entries on table 12-3 were never meant to be exact math formula. Am I right?

In other words, the table is right because the table gives good estimations of an encounter (which was its only purpose), and is not wrong because the calculator's result was different.

Is that it?

I mean, if I want to know what 8 CR 15 creatures are, just look it up on the table and forget correct formulas.