Help me build an 11th level ranger (please)

Mercurius · Apr 4, 2011

A quick note on context: I'm the usual DM in my group but have been experiencing a strong case of burnout so one of the other guys is taking over for a bit. We had our first session with him as DM last night and it went pretty well - the game looks to be heavy on the dungeon crawl and adventure side of things, with some role playing and not much meta-plot. The idea is that we're going to continue using my "points of light" campaign world and different people can run adventures, with a focus on exploration, treasure-seeking, and all that fun light stuff.

I made an 11th level elf ranger and enjoyed playing it, although was a bit lost in terms of powers and feats. We have a general rule that after making a new character you can tweak the character for the first couple sessions until you get it just right. So I'm essentially wanting to start from scratch, although with a general idea of what I want my character to be good at.

The Character: As I said, he's an 11th level elf ranger. I want him to focus on longbow but also be able to fight well with two short swords. Ideally he'd be able to fight with two weapons at once but it doesn't have to be anything fancy - the fancy stuff (powers) would be focused on the ranged attacks. In other words, I don't want a strict bow-type ranger or a two-weapon-type ranger, something of a hybrid but with the emphasis on the bow (I envision the characters as being similar to Legolas in the LotR movies, although more of a rough character, but I'm only looking for tactical/rules advice!).

So what do you recommend for:

Powers
Feats
Paragon Path
Magic Items

And a specific question: what feats, features, powers do I need to be able to make dual attacks with short swords?

Thanks!

Mentat55 · Apr 4, 2011

The trickiest thing will be to make sure you have a decent Strength, since most ranger melee powers (with a few exceptions) key off Strength. Alternatively, you can choose the few Dex-based ranger melee powers, or rely on melee basic attacks when fighting with your short swords. In that case, Melee Training (Dexterity) will be invaluable.

In general, if you want to be able to mix it up in melee and use your bow, I'd suggest choosing ranger powers that work with both melee and ranged weapons.

Another consideration is that you will need three magic weapons if you want to maintain any level of effectiveness in melee.

The Hunter Fighting Style, which lets you quickly change weapons, is probably ideal for what you have in mind. The at-will power Fading Strike allows you to use Dexterity for a melee attack, and is a nice complement to the bread-and-butter Twin Strike. I really like Attacks on the Run (level 9 daily) -- great damage, lots of movement, can be used with a bow or two melee weapons (but uses Str for melee).

nightspaladin · Apr 4, 2011

I can give some simple advice to start.

Take the two weapon build. It has better options, such as toughness, and let's you dual wield the way you want.

the problem you are going to have is str and dex. You will need both of them to be high to go interchangeable . If you can balance them out, a lot of the attack powers, such as the power you will be using for your entire career, Twin strike, let you all with both weapons via str or shot twice with bow via dex. Look for those powers that are listed as Melee or ranged in the range category. Those are designed to let you mix and match. Since you want to be more bow driven, i would maybe only pick one or two of these powers and use the rest for bow attack goodness.

Honestly, if you want an archer that can drop to 2 weapons on occasion and fight, taking twin strike alone and having a decent str is enough. You will have a huge range of archery powers, and if you want to wade into melee, you can spam the single best at will in the game.

Functionally, it will give you a "basic no thrills attack" with swords and murderous range power. That's honestly how i would build legolas.

Aulirophile · Apr 4, 2011

Being an Elf Archer Ranger and still wanting to melee is fundamentally not a good idea. The secondary stat for Archers is Wis, not Str, and you'll have to invest heavily into Str to make this work.

Ideally you'd be a Str/Dex Race and be a dual-wielder by default, who occasionally broke out a bow.

Aegeri · Apr 4, 2011

Personally I wouldn't go both two weapons and bow - it's not a good idea. All you have to do here to make a very effective character - I would even go as far to say this will play itself 99% of the time - is go Dex/Wisdom (con tertiary) and take:

Twin Strike (obviously) - core at-will
Battlefield Archer - Paragon Path
Wintertouched and Lasting Frost - Bonus damage + easy CA on distant targets
Focus on taking out of turn attacks - Spitting Cobra Stance for example as even nerfed it's still good

Profit??!

You'll be immensely effective and with powers like disruptive strike, you can even protect your allies to provide a solid control option. At the same time, you will be utterly rubbish with two weapons, but then you do have to pick one or the other by this point. You only get 1 paragon path and most of them will lean heavily towards TWF or being a bow ranger. So trying to spread yourself out will really cripple you. If you go more melee, I would recommend Stormwarden as you can have some dex for a bow (if needed) and deal solid automatic damage (equal to dex). Plus it has some nice AoE powers and can give you an encounter stance for a +2 bonus to attacks (albeit at a -2 AC penalty).

Again though, just take similar things like wintertouched/lasting frost - or even just pull out a radiant weapon and take radiant feats.

It is in fact very hard to go wrong with a ranger by paragon in all honesty.

Mad Hamish · Apr 4, 2011

If you go for a Hunter build then you can use Fading Strike for Attacks of Opportunity.

It also gives you a bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity, Quickdraw and lets you put a weapon away as a free action. Considering you'll be changing weapons quite often that's probably a better pick than the 2 weapon build (the main benefit of it is the ability to wield bastard swords in each hand, which you aren't interested in)

The ability to make dual attacks with shortswords comes almost entirely from your power selection. Twin strike will do it but it means you'd need to bump str, as an archer you'll need to bump dex so it means Wisdom is left behind and wisdom adds a fair bit to a ranger.
The feat Two weapon combat gives you a bonus to damage for having weapons in both hands.

I think most of the melee attacks using Dex are only single weapon attacks.

As far as feats go you'll want to use a Great Bow instead of a longbow, you'll need expertise at some stage.

So really you've got 2 options, go largely dex for melee and don't get both attacks or have a balanced str/dex build and use twin strike for melee and ranged attacks.

Raith5 · Apr 4, 2011

Aegeri said:
Personally I wouldn't go both two weapons and bow - it's not a good idea. All you have to do here to make a very effective character - I would even go as far to say this will play itself 99% of the time - is go Dex/Wisdom (con tertiary) and take:

Twin Strike (obviously) - core at-will
Battlefield Archer - Paragon Path
Wintertouched and Lasting Frost - Bonus damage + easy CA on distant targets
Focus on taking out of turn attacks - Spitting Cobra Stance for example as even nerfed it's still good

Profit??!

You'll be immensely effective and with powers like disruptive strike, you can even protect your allies to provide a solid control option. At the same time, you will be utterly rubbish with two weapons, but then you do have to pick one or the other by this point. You only get 1 paragon path and most of them will lean heavily towards TWF or being a bow ranger. So trying to spread yourself out will really cripple you. If you go more melee, I would recommend Stormwarden as you can have some dex for a bow (if needed) and deal solid automatic damage (equal to dex). Plus it has some nice AoE powers and can give you an encounter stance for a +2 bonus to attacks (albeit at a -2 AC penalty).

Again though, just take similar things like wintertouched/lasting frost - or even just pull out a radiant weapon and take radiant feats.

It is in fact very hard to go wrong with a ranger by paragon in all honesty.

This is good advice. I have a 10th level hybrid ranger/cleric who focuses on bows. I have only used my longswords about 2-3 times in 10 levels (though I did punch a decrepit skeleton once...)

I found Cobra Stance very circumstantial - even before the errata.
Disruptive strike is a strong and useful power (especially if you have good Wis)
Biting volley (targets reflex) is also useful
Yield ground and the other movement utilities are very useful - especially if you are an archer
Attacks on the run is the king daily of rangers

In terms of feats - weapon proficiency in great bow is very nice
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bganon · Apr 4, 2011

I've played a character like this for a while (mainly using a bow but having some shortsword options), and honestly... after level 4 I pretty much stopped using the swords entirely. The bow is so much better that it's not worth it. You start out thinking that when surrounded, you'll switch to swords and stab away, but there are a few problems with this:

1 Shortsword damage dice suck.
2 Your OAs will be worthless without help.
3 Carrying and juggling around 3+ weapons is a hassle, even with Quick Draw.
4 You can easily have multiple powers that let you shift away so you don't even need to be in melee.
5 You can easily pick up options and/or feats that allow you to safely fire point blank, gaining you Prime Shot plus whatever positional options you have (yes, you can flank with a bow!)
6 Even if you multiclass Rogue like I did (appealing if you use shortswords), you can still take Treetop Sniper and deal SA damage with your bow.

And so on. Basically, if you're a Ranger with high Dex, the bow powers are so appealing that it just isn't worth it to muck around with melee weapons. My character still carries those shortswords, but I can't remember the last time she used them.

On Puget Sound · Apr 4, 2011

I disagree with those who say a melee/ ranged mix is bad. Yes, you could squeeze one more point of dex by forgoing str or vice versa, but so what? There are easily enough powers, and one actual build, that reward mixing the two. Here is my attempt:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Mercurius's Ranger, level 11
Elf, Ranger, Sharpshooter
Build: Hunter Ranger
Fighting Style: Hunter Fighting Style
Ranger: Prime Shot
Background: Elf - Wild Elf (+2 to Athletics)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 11, Dex 20, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 17, Con 10, Dex 15, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10.

AC: 25 Fort: 24 Reflex: 24 Will: 21
HP: 73 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 18

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +15, Stealth +14, Perception +15, Athletics +16, Acrobatics +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +4, Heal +8, History +4, Insight +8, Intimidate +5, Religion +4, Streetwise +5, Thievery +9

FEATS
Level 1: Brutal Accuracy
Level 2: Lethal Hunter
Level 4: Manticore's Fury
Level 6: Bow Expertise
Level 8: Distant Advantage
Level 10: Light Blade Expertise
Level 11: Improved Defenses

POWERS
Ranger at-will 1: Twin Strike
Ranger at-will 1: Fading Strike
Ranger encounter 1: Evasive Strike
Ranger daily 1: Skirmishing Stance
Ranger utility 2: Oak Skin
Ranger encounter 3: Disruptive Strike
Ranger daily 5: Hunter's Confrontation
Ranger utility 6: Step of Morning Mist
Ranger encounter 7: Sweeping Whirlwind
Ranger daily 9: Thousand Arrow Awareness
Ranger utility 10: Defensive Volley

ITEMS
Paired Short sword +2, Duelist's Bow Longbow +3, Counterstrike Hide Armor +2, Amulet of Protection +3, Quickhit Braces (heroic tier), Acrobat Boots (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

GreenRanger · Apr 4, 2011

What about using the Combat training (Dex) feat to ensure goot to hit with your melee weapons?

Yes, you sacrifice some damage (1/2 Dex mod damage vs Str mod damage) but it could be a means to allow a decent melee option in terms of hitting the enemy.

Or am I missing something?