[OOC] The Forges of the Mountain King- 1st Level Dwarf PCs [Full]

Herobizkit will be joining us to play Mardred, I've had no reply from ripjames for two or so weeks now, the understanding is Hero will play Mardred until ripjames returns.

However if ripjames doesn't return for a good while then Hero will get the spot, make him welcome guys.

Cheers Goonalan

Welcome, Herobizkit. Hope you have a great time gaming with us.

Pinotage (Kazzagin)

Thanks. I may just get your poor dwarf rogue killed for being unlucky in the first couple of rounds. :X

Speaking of, does anyone have any 'slide', 'pull' or 'push' powers so I can get out of melee and start ranging that big boy Ogre? I can't stand while Prone or I'll get a free OA on me, and I can't shift or be shifted while prone either.

Far as I know, standing does not provoke OAs. Leaving the square w/o shifting would, a la a crawl (move 1/2 speed). And I've always played that forced shifts do not provoke either, even from the prone (though forced movement would). I believe that's 'by the book' but I could be mistaken.

Of course, I defer to whatever Goonalan says.

As for this combat itself, looks like we've committed now to the close-quarters fight...Cinara's gonna try and get around the back to provide flanking.

Herobizkit said:

Thanks. I may just get your poor dwarf rogue killed for being unlucky in the first couple of rounds. :X

Speaking of, does anyone have any 'slide', 'pull' or 'push' powers so I can get out of melee and start ranging that big boy Ogre? I can't stand while Prone or I'll get a free OA on me, and I can't shift or be shifted while prone either.

Click to expand...

larryfinnjr said:

Far as I know, standing does not provoke OAs. Leaving the square w/o shifting would, a la a crawl (move 1/2 speed). And I've always played that forced shifts do not provoke either, even from the prone (though forced movement would). I believe that's 'by the book' but I could be mistaken.

Of course, I defer to whatever Goonalan says.

As for this combat itself, looks like we've committed now to the close-quarters fight...Cinara's gonna try and get around the back to provide flanking.

Click to expand...

Here we go-

1) Standing does not provoke Opportunity Attacks- OAs only come when you attempt to 'Move' not 'Shift' out of the square you are in. You can stand using your 'Ambush Trick' move action- no problems.

2) While the Ogre Zombie has a Reach 2 attack it does not gain OAs within it's reach- so you're safe to move anyway.

3) Forced movement does not provoke OAs.

4) Crawl is a Move Action- you remain Prone and move half your speed, you provoke OAs but the Ogre is two squares away and see point 2) above.

The point is where you are is safe- I did it on purpose because I am a nice DM and want you to get through this.

You can stand as your Move Action using your Ambush Trick Move and then have Combat Advantage over the Zombie Ogre- then fling your Dagger at +2 To Hit (with Sneak Attack and/or Backstab- Free Actions, if you wish).

Just to make it clear with Combat Advantage, Backstab and Sneak Attack you are-

+11 To Hit (+6 normally- +2 Combat Advantage & +3 Backstab)
1d4+5+1d6 (Backstab)+2d8 (Sneak Attack)damage

Miss and your Backstab is used but providing you get combat advantage, which you should every round with Ambush Trick then you get the extra 2d8 sneak attack every round, and the +2 To Hit for Combat Advantage.

Cheers Goonalan.

Heh. I assumed the Orge could smack anyone within reach, since the main advantage of Reach is OA's when people close into melee. But I suppose he's a Zombie, so he's limited to partial actions... but he moved and attacked too... unless that's his special ability. Ah, 4e, you make-a no sense.

Re: Ambush Trick. The text reads "You move your Speed" as opposed to "You move up to your Speed". As it reads, it appears to me that you need to move your full speed for the power to work. But hey, if I can shift... oh wait, shift =/= move in the combat maneuver sense, is it... but hey, if you're gonna give me free OA's, awesome.

Lastly, in addition to the gear I haven't added yet, Mardred doesn't appear to have a Daily power.

I guess at this point you are beginning to realise that this is a killer scenario, well... it is- I spoke to Harley Stroh about it (he wrote it) and he confessed that he had only had the 4e rules explained to him when he wrote it. He was kinda guessing about some stuff, Goodman Games, and Mr. Stroh tend to write scenarios which are much more challenging than the run of the mill WOTC fare.

I've DM'ed this scenario previously, as I said some time ago, it resulted in a TPK after three encounters- you're on your third encounter now. Just to reassure you however this wasn't the encounter we TPK'ed at last time.

After the TPK the players were so annoyed they rolled up new Dwarves (we played it with Dwarves last time- same intro) and headed back in- at which point they kicked ass, no further deaths although several times they got close again to individual (and group) demise.

The guys (and one gal) that played it were all new to D&D 4e, in fact four of the five players had never played an RPG previously- this was the fourth scenario they had played (ever).

The ones before this were-

Keep on the Shadowfell (1 PC Death- the guy that had played D&D, and 4e previously funnily enough).

Sellswords of Punjar (another Goodman Games scenario- 3 PC Deaths)

Thunderspire Labyrinth (no deaths)

This one came next.

Just to say I am trying to help you along a bit- the first Encounter I made much easier, it was originally 5 Fire Beetles- each one getting a go with its 3d6 Fire Spray attack.

The second encounter with the Ogre and the Ragged Dwarves I reduced the defences of the Dwarves and the Ogre on the fly, and made the Ogre -2 To Hit while it was in the water, but didn't enforce the rule for you guys.

In this encounter I have again dropped the defences of the bad guys...

My point is I'm trying to give you a boost, and that's fine by me- I want a great story and dramatic action.

You may however want to consider some more OOC chat- it would have been possible to get clear of the Ogre (including Mardred) reverse in to a much better environment, possibly with Readied Actions and have mullered (got four of you around the Ogre) the beast and taken them down one-by-one in a choke point.

Obviously this kind of tactics is a lot harder to do because you are not around a table, everything takes much longer to work out. The other factor is you have no leader, I don't mean someone dishing out the healing I mean someone saying- this is what we should do, and everyone agreeing, or not agreeing but doing it anyway.

Again, this is not a problem, I enjoy the chaos of it all. It needs to be said however it is very much harder to disengage from a fight than it is to plan the place to stage the fight. Once you're in, then... well, you're pretty much in.

So why am I writing all of this, two reasons-

1) Sorry, this is a hard scenario, there will more than likely be more deaths... It's not you playing badly, its just... a terror. Remember though, that's a good thing- complete this and you get to tell the tale.

2) It's been done before, I've seen it- it took Daily Powers and Action Points, and tactics, and good dice rolls... But it can be done.

And here's the thing- you can do it!

Perhaps with a little more OOC chat et al.

Good Luck- Bottoms Up!

2)

Herobizkit said:

Heh. I assumed the Orge could smack anyone within reach, since the main advantage of Reach is OA's when people close into melee. But I suppose he's a Zombie, so he's limited to partial actions... but he moved and attacked too... unless that's his special ability. Ah, 4e, you make-a no sense.

Re: Ambush Trick. The text reads "You move your Speed" as opposed to "You move up to your Speed". As it reads, it appears to me that you need to move your full speed for the power to work. But hey, if I can shift... oh wait, shift =/= move in the combat maneuver sense, is it... but hey, if you're gonna give me free OA's, awesome.

Lastly, in addition to the gear I haven't added yet, Mardred doesn't appear to have a Daily power.

Click to expand...

Text from Ambush Trick-

You dodge and weave, making a feint that causes your foe to turn and lose track of you.

At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal

Effect: You move up to your speed. Until the end of your turn, you gain combat advantage against enemies that are within 5 squares of you when you attack and that have none of their allies adjacent to them.

Next...

4e is a different beast, you'll have to unlearn some stuff for previous editions, I've been in-game since the first Red Box so I've had to unlearn stuff again and again.

There are some creatures which have the ability to make OAs within their Reach, the Ogre Zombie is not one of them- I guess he's not a bright chap.

He's an Essentials Build Rogue- ripjames built him, not my choice, they have no Daily Powers.

Cheers Goonalan

Herobizkit said:

Heh. I assumed the Orge could smack anyone within reach, since the main advantage of Reach is OA's when people close into melee. But I suppose he's a Zombie, so he's limited to partial actions... but he moved and attacked too... unless that's his special ability. Ah, 4e, you make-a no sense.

Re: Ambush Trick. The text reads "You move your Speed" as opposed to "You move up to your Speed". As it reads, it appears to me that you need to move your full speed for the power to work. But hey, if I can shift... oh wait, shift =/= move in the combat maneuver sense, is it... but hey, if you're gonna give me free OA's, awesome.

Lastly, in addition to the gear I haven't added yet, Mardred doesn't appear to have a Daily power.

Click to expand...

Text from Ambush Trick-

You dodge and weave, making a feint that causes your foe to turn and lose track of you.

At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal

Effect: You move up to your speed. Until the end of your turn, you gain combat advantage against enemies that are within 5 squares of you when you attack and that have none of their allies adjacent to them.

Next...

4e is a different beast, you'll have to unlearn some stuff for previous editions, I've been in-game since the first Red Box so I've had to unlearn stuff again and again.

There are some creatures which have the ability to make OAs within their Reach, the Ogre Zombie is not one of them- I guess he's not a bright chap.

He's an Essentials Build Rogue- ripjames built him, not my choice, they have no Daily Powers.

Cheers Goonalan

@ Hero: in 4e, there's a difference b/t Reach and Threatening Reach - the latter allows the creature to OA w/in its reach.

@ DM: you're doing awesome and, while I'm happy most of us are still alive, I'm all for terror, danger, and threat of death around every corner. and again while I'm happy you're not pulling punches, I'm glad you've realized that maybe some of the encounters have been overpowered and are doing the right thing by tweaking where appropriate to make it a balance, yet deadly fight. Kudos!