[OOC] The Forges of the Mountain King- 1st Level Dwarf PCs [Full]

Krogran and Kazzagin are about to get wacked by the first ogre, after which I think we try and not get trapped between the first and the second. I'd suggest we get out the where Grim is, though we'll have to see how everything goes.

Pinotage

I was moving around to flank ol' #2, but now I'm free to ambush trick either or.

Goonalan said:

GM: Krogan also came up with this idea, here are the rules- You can indeed seperate the limbs from the body but you have six seconds between the time they die and the time they reanimate, basically one round of attacks- only they reroll Initiative and so animate at a new time in the next round. They are huge 600lb eight feet tall Ogres, if you want to hack a limb off then roll high with big damage- its doable (especially with a butcher in the party- Krogan), but still difficult. When they are 'dead' they take no damage, when they come alive- they get HPs back and all effects are cancelled- Marks etc. and all their powers are refreshed, effectively they're born again. I have a number in my head for the amount of damage you have to do to sever a limb, you have to do that- it's based on the creatures overall HP- I'm happy to give bonuses to the butcher, and for other things. My point is- in 6 seconds it awakes again, maybe you can cut off one or two limbs in that time... maybe not- I still need to hit attack, a '1' is still bad but for the most part the to hit roll required to hit is incredibly low, still room (just) for a miss though. Otherwise you can also ready an action to attack the thing- with combat advantage, when it 'animates' that way a hit does damage, the above way does not inflict damage. A one-legged Ogre will still have 'full' hit points. Larry you asked at one point whether the Zombies when they got up were Bloodied or had 'Full' Hit Points, I'll say this- observably they're already in a bad way, so reading between the lines- they are not on full hit points. Obviously I'll not tell you how many Hit Points they have, but watch their Health Bars once you get a hit in. Hairychin I believe the other guys are suggesting that they head for the passage to the spider cavern, you'll have to look on the maps, at this point it would be easy to fight with a lot of you guys against a single target- and one Ogre Zombie at a time. Particularly if you bottle-necked the point in which the passage enters the spider cavern- as you would in a doorway. Hope this is all understandable.

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Attacks versus immobile/helpless characters are 'autocrits' in 4e. Hacking on the head/neck of an 'dead' enemy doesn't sound harder for me.

Sorry for being argumentative, but this sounds very un-4e for me. I enjoy something like this in AD&D, but dislike to meshing systems to much.

May I suggest something like a skill challenge? Some try to hold down/ bind the ogre while the other roll their attack bonus instead of a skill?

Maybe 5 success before 2 failures. And all that while someone else has to occupy the other active ogre.
If we fail the ogre is fully up again and we have to retry once it is dead again.

Just a suggestion, but this uses a bit more the 4e system. Scratch it if you dislike the idea.

Grim is fully fine with fleeing instead

Walking Dad said:

Attacks versus immobile/helpless characters are 'autocrits' in 4e. Hacking on the head/neck of an 'dead' enemy doesn't sound harder for me.

Sorry for being argumentative, but this sounds very un-4e for me. I enjoy something like this in AD&D, but dislike to meshing systems to much.

May I suggest something like a skill challenge? Some try to hold down/ bind the ogre while the other roll their attack bonus instead of a skill?

Maybe 5 success before 2 failures. And all that while someone else has to occupy the other active ogre.
If we fail the ogre is fully up again and we have to retry once it is dead again.

Just a suggestion, but this uses a bit more the 4e system. Scratch it if you dislike the idea.

Grim is fully fine with fleeing instead

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Hmmm...

I just looked again through the rules and I see the following-

Helpless
While a creature is helpless, it grants combat advantage and can be the target of a coup de grace.

&

Coup de Grace
Sometimes, you have the opportunity to attack a foe who is completely defenseless. It’s not chivalrous to do so, but it is viciously effective. This action is known as a coup de grace.

COUP DE GRACE: STANDARD ACTION

Helpless Target: You can deliver a coup de grace against a helpless enemy adjacent to you. Use any attack power you could normally use against the enemy, including a basic attack.
Hit: You score a critical hit.

Slaying the Target Outright: If you deal damage greater than or equal to the target’s bloodied value, the target dies.

So...

From the above you get Combat Advantage, you still have to make a To Hit roll, if you hit you do a Crit- is that right?

My problem lies in the fact that the creature has no HP, it's dead- therefore I suggested a much easier To Hit, with the above rules you just get a +2, unless I'm not seeing it right- feel free to step in, I'm very reliant on the compendium here.

In essence that would mean you need to hit AC18 (if you were targeting AC) to hit the Zombie Ogre... using the above rules.

My suggestion was to make it all defences 10- I figure you can hit the thing.

The creature has no HP so you can't coup de grace it, you can't kill a dead thing until it is alive- if you see what I mean.

I had in mind a number of HP to hack through a limb, I was treating the creature as an object- it has low defences, and a set number of hit points to destroy (sever).

I have no problem with questioning the rules, likewise I have no problem with making this a Skill Challenge (as suggested). I would however like to work out where my above interpretation went wrong, just because I like to learn.

And of course I don't think you're being argumentative, this is a group game in which a lot of the rules are subject to interpretation- particularly as they do not cover such eventualities as- chopping through dead, soon to be not dead, Ogre Zombie's limbs...

Please reply then I'll make a ruling.

Seems I misremembered coup de grace. You need to hit, but you don't roll your regular damage, just your 'crit' dice.

For hitting, we get the bonus/penalty for hitting a prone target in addition?

I found no rules for attacking objects, but bursting, smashing and breaking are str rolls. Not Grim's strongest ability. I will go with your interpretation . Will you allow my slam to 'push' away limbs from the body, if I roll high enough? Or do we have to use 'slashing' weapons?

wow, yes this sure is a conundrum with the now dead, not totally dead, undead, soon to be re-undead not dead undead ogre. hmmm....

i'm like/with you, goonalan - i love to question/play with the rules when 1) the players come up with something unexpected and 2) when it means it keeps the story moving. i'm personally ok with any interpretation... would be much easier around a table than in-between posts. and, like WD, Cinara's totally fine w/ breaking for the cave and making our stand there.....

[MENTION=59043]Walking Dad[/MENTION] - obviously your new character is a revenant... but what class? i noticed only 2 surges... vampire? spooky goodness!

Walking Dad said:

Seems I misremembered coup de grace. You need to hit, but you don't roll your regular damage, just your 'crit' dice.

For hitting, we get the bonus/penalty for hitting a prone target in addition?

I found no rules for attacking objects, but bursting, smashing and breaking are str rolls. Not Grim's strongest ability. I will go with your interpretation . Will you allow my slam to 'push' away limbs from the body, if I roll high enough? Or do we have to use 'slashing' weapons?

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The bonus for Prone is Combat Advantage for those making Melee attack and -2 To Hit for those using Ranged, so...

Can't combine Combat Advantage with Combat Advantage = no stack.

My measure seems doable still, and easier from my perspective to judge whether a limb is severed, to recap-

State which limb

Roll To Hit

Roll damage

For the bonus tell me a skill you are employing and make a roll, or else RP a little and I'll adjudicate.

larryfinnjr said:

...obviously your new character is a revenant... but what class? ...

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Sorry, this is a secret between Goonalan and me

I didn't know he even had a new character.

... unless ...

Goonalan is letting him play the Gaffer!

HMMM...

You may wish to consider posting here more often- telling your comrades what you intend to do, or else offering advice, it doesn't always need to be IC.

I run two PBP, the other game the players are on their 6th encounter, much simpler encounters than yours- three of them were skill challenges, but they tend to post OOC nearly as much as they post in-game. Just simple stuff like-

Leave square ?? free for me, I'm going to take out (whoever).

Or just to ask questions-

Are we going in, or shall we rest here...

Or,

All concentrate fire on...

Or,

(Whoever) go for a sneak and see what you can see.

I think the players in the other PBP stop by the OOC thread before heading to the IC thread much of the time- just to see if there's any chatter about what to do next.

I appreciate it's difficult to stay in character all the time in the IC thread, if you want to chat and make suggestions then don't hesitate to use this thread. I appreciate you've all got busy lives, we're moving fast in the IC thread, a little more chat here and less action in the IC is fine by me, if we get a consensus going.

To reiterate this is a incredibly tough scenario, you're doing well, but it doesn't get any easier- I promise. Hairychin will be back but... well, he's waiting for the right time... be reassured he'll be back in full force though.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Cheers Goonalan.