Goonalan's- Forges of the Mountain King PC- Dwarves Only

Goonalan · May 13, 2011

Just to say that once you've submitted your character then feel free to wander in to the IC game, and join Cinara and Leonard-

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/305740-forges-mountain-king-chapter-1-bottoms-up.html

And perhaps find someone to talk to...

Waiting on two more PCs, hopefully we'll be in play proper by Sunday or Monday.

Cheers Goonalan

Pinotage · May 13, 2011

I've finished my character sheet (I think). Could people please check it to see I've got everything correct and haven't omitted anything? Thanks!

Pinotage

Goonalan · May 14, 2011

Pinotage said:
Updated 13/05/2011.

Seeing as I'm still learning the 4e ropes and this is my first attempt at 4e character creation, can people please check my details as they roll in? Thanks!

Name: Kazzagin, Paladin of Freedom
Race: Dwarf
Size: Medium
Class: Paladin
Level: 1
XP: 0
Alignment: Good
Deity: Pelor

Sex: Male
Age: 48
Height: 4' 8"
Weight: 203 lbs
Eye Colour: Brown
Hair Colour: Brown

Code:

Str: 15 (+2) (+2 Race) Dex: 11 (+0) Con: 14 (+2) (+2 Race) Int: 10 (+0) Wis: 14 (+2) Cha: 16 (+3)

HP: 29
Bloodied HP: 14
Healing Surges: 12 (+10 Base +2 Constitution)
Healing Surge Value: 7
Second Wind: 1/Encounter (Minor Action)
Action Points: 1

Code:

AC: 10 (+10 Base) Init: +0 (+0 Dexterity) Speed: 5 (+5 Race) Saves: Cast-Iron Stomach - +5 Racial vs. Poison Fort: +13 (+10 Base +1 Paladin +2 Constitution) Refl: +11 (+10 Base +1 Paladin +0 Dexterity) Will: +14 (+10 Base +1 Paladin +3 Charisma) Passive Insight: +17 (+10 Base +7 Insight) Passive Perception: +12 (+10 Base +2 Perception)

Languages: Command and Dwarven

Skills(4):

Code:

Religion +5 (+5 Trained +0 Intelligence) Intimidate +8 (+5 Trained +3 Charisma) Heal +7 (+5 Trained +2 Wisdom) Insight +7 (+5 Trained +2 Wisdom)

Dwarven Skills: +2 Dungeoneering, +2 Endurance

Racial Features: Low-light Vision, Cast-Iron Stomach, Dwarven Resilience, Dwarven Weapon Proficiency (Warhammer, Throwing Hammer), Encumbered Speed, Stand Your Ground (Push, Pull or Slide 1 Square Less)

Class Features: Defender, Divine Power Source, Armor Proficiency (Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chainmail, Scale, Plate, Light Shield, Heavy Shield), Weapon Proficiencies (Simple Melee and Ranged, Military Melee), Holy Symbol Implement, Paladin Defense Bonuses, Channel Divinity (Divine Mettle, Divine Strength), Divine Challenge, Lay on Hands

Feats(1): Power Attack (-2 Attack, +2 Damage)

Powers:

At-Will(2):

Bolstering Strike (+15 vs. AC, 1d10+3 and +2 Temporary hp)
Holy Strike (+14 vs. AC, 1d10+2 Radiant, Marked Targets 1d10+4)

Encounter(1):

Radiant Smite (+14 vs. AC, 2d10+4 Radiant)

Daily(1):

Radiant Delirium (+13 vs. Reflex, 3d8+3 Radiant, Dazed, -2 AC, Miss - Half Damage and Dazed)

Equipment:

12 gp 6 sp

Chainmail (+6 AC, -1 Check, -1 Speed)
Light Shield (+1 AC and Reflex)
Battleaxe (1d10, +2 Proficiency, Axe, Versatile)
Sling (1d6, +2 Proficiency, 10/20 Range, Load Free)
Sling Bullets (20)
Adventurer's Kit (Backpack, Bedroll, Flint and Steel, Belt Pouch, Trail Rations (10), Hempen Rope (50 ft.), Sunrods (2), Waterskin)
Holy Symbol
Torch (2)
Oil (2)

Basic Attacks:

Melee (Battleaxe +14 vs. AC, 1d10+2)
Ranged (Sling +12 vs. AC, 1d6)

I'll work my way down it-

First- Pelor's an odd choice for a Dwarf but I've seen it before, the sun God is not often worshipped by Dwarves, what with them spending a good deal of time (perhaps) in their Holds and Delves. As I say I've seen it before in my present Maptools campaign we have an NPC Grundelmar, Dwarf Priest of Pelor- he's scared of the dark, a secret he revealed to the PC Priest of Pelor Drake in their present adventure. Odd but a good odd.

And last- You attack values for you weapon attacks +14 with Battleaxe- how did you come about that?

Your Melee Basic Attack: Battleaxe= Str Bonus (+2) + Level Bonus (+0) + Weapon Prof (+2) = +4 vs AC
Ranged Basic Attack: Sling= Dex Bonus (+0) + Level Bonus (+0) + Weapon Prof (+2) = +2 vs AC

And so your other attacks are-

At-Will(2):

Bolstering Strike (+5 vs. AC, 1d10+3 and +2 Temporary hp)
Holy Strike (+4 vs. AC, 1d10+2 Radiant, Marked Targets 1d10+4)

Encounter(1):

Radiant Smite (+4 vs. AC, 2d10+4 Radiant)

Daily(1):

Radiant Delirium (+3 vs. Reflex, 3d8+3 Radiant, Dazed, -2 AC, Miss - Half Damage and Dazed)

Which, if I'm being terribly honest with you- and I am, leaves you very underpowered, I'm prepared to bet that yours are going to be the lowest To Hit bonuses in the party, by a way. Now I'll explain why-

But with the following caveat- play what you want, feel free to ignore anything and everything I say- okay. I'm telling you the below because I've been playing 4e since the day it came out and while I've never been a player, I've DMed lots of players, and seen a lot of PC builds.

1. A PC without an 18 (or more- reset your mind if you are used to previous editions, I'd say over 75% (more)of the PCs I see have a min 18 in their prime stat, with perhaps nearly 50% with a 19), anyway- as I was saying a PC without an 18 in his prime stat is rare, at best. Remember the mindset here is the PC is already a Hero, they've already tangled with danger- they may be the farm boy but they've seen a bit of action and are fit for purpose- one of the hardest things my present players had to get used to was that they started the game as experienced, better than experienced- Heroic.

Just to confirm looking through the 4 PCs we've got in so far for Prime stats we have 20 (x1), 19 (x2) and an (18), and I'm failry certain the 5th PC will be trying for a 20 (that's the Rogue)- who will probably end up with +9 or +10 To Hit for most of his attacks.

2. Your Feat doesn't help, it in fact makes it harder for you to hit, and only does an extra +2 damage- if you wanted +2 to damage without the -2 penalty then you could have taken Dwarven Weapon Training, which gives +2 on all Hammers and Axes- and have your guy throw Hammers or Axes for Ranged. Better still get a Feat that gives you a bonus to hit- I appreciate this is making character building sound a bit vanilla but the good thing about 4e is you can swap feats at later levels- every level you can change one thing, so swap a feat, or swap a power or... A lot of PCs start looking the same and as they progress become vastly different- not always but... You get my point.

3. Your weapon is only a +2 Prof. sad to say but 4e makes it harder to dismiss the extra +1 for a +3 prof weapon.

Just to add it up with an 18 Cha, a +1 Weapon Feat and a +3 Prof Weapon your attacks become +8 To Hit

In game a Paladin is a Defender- he gets in there and keeps everyone else safe, soaks up damage and dishes a fair bit out to boot.

The other Defender in the group is the Fighter of course, he's +8 To Hit with all of his attacks. So when I say you're underpowered what I mean to say is you are around about 50% of the other PCs as regards your ability to connect.

Again, I don't want to ruin your fun- this is your guy, and if you stick with it great, and if you try it and you don't like it then I'll allow you to rebuild- your 4e light after all.

That said I think combat may become a bit of a drag (honestly) with +4 To Hit as your best attack...

Finally don't forget to add your Shield Bonus on to your Reflex.

4e is a game for maximisers (perhaps, certainly more so than previous editions), from my experiences then people quickly learn at lower levels to be solid (good defences) and swingy (or lasery)- the point is the bad guys have lots more Hit Points, they do lots more damage and you therefore have to absorb more and deal more to have a chance. I've played D&D for 30 years, I've seen and heard about more TPKs in this edition than I have in any previous (probably).

One more thing, I note you are trying to combine Strength based attacks with Charisma based attacks- you can do that of course, but- and again, the optimum solution is to focus on whatever your primes stat is and pick powers to go with that- I appreciate you only have the PH.

Once more, play what you want- you asked for feedback, here it is.

Cheers Goonalan

Oh just spotted another-

Fort: +13 (+10 Base +1 Paladin +2 Constitution or Strength)
Refl: +11 (+10 Base +1 Paladin +0 Dexterity or Int)
Will: +14 (+10 Base +1 Paladin +3 Charisma or Wis)

A small matter but worth reminding you of.

Pinotage · May 14, 2011

Goonalan said:
First - Pelor's an odd choice for a Dwarf but I've seen it before

Yes, the choice was intentional. I didn't want to go with Moradin as Pelor fit the concept better. Hopefully once I've got the background written up you'll see why.

Goonalan said:
And last- You attack values for you weapon attacks +14 with Battleaxe- how did you come about that?

Sorry. Brainfart. They were all +10 out. Somehow I was thinking saving throws when I wrote those.

Goonalan said:
Which, if I'm being terribly honest with you - and I am - leaves you very underpowered.

Very useful. I'll think about revising.

Goonalan said:
Your Feat doesn't help.

I couldn't see anything better, but I see your point about something like Weapon Focus or Dwarven Weapon Training.

Goonalan said:
Your weapon is only a +2 Prof.

I picked the battleaxe for the 1d10. The best +3 weapon is the longsword with 1d8. Did I miss a better weapon?

Thanks again! I'm learning quickly. I'll likely revise sometime later today.

Pinotage

Goonalan · May 14, 2011

Pinotage said:
Yes, the choice was intentional. I didn't want to go with Moradin as Pelor fit the concept better. Hopefully once I've got the background written up you'll see why.

Sorry. Brainfart. They were all +10 out. Somehow I was thinking saving throws when I wrote those.

Very useful. I'll think about revising.

I couldn't see anything better, but I see your point about something like Weapon Focus or Dwarven Weapon Training.

I picked the battleaxe for the 1d10. The best +3 weapon is the longsword with 1d8. Did I miss a better weapon?

Thanks again! I'm learning quickly. I'll likely revise sometime later today.

Pinotage

The difficulty for me is to reset my brain to a PHB only world-

From top to bottom, Pelor choice- cool looking forward to it, just to say the Dwarves now have a number of gods in the DDI.

Brainfart for additional +10, no probs.

I take it you're not messing with your base Stats- no probs.

Feats and Weapons, again the problem is reseting to PHB only, WOTC themselves realised there was aproblem with To Hits for some PC builds and introduced Weapon Expertise which gave an extra +1 To Hit (per tier, so +2 at 11th Level etc.), so if you want this... then take it in Axes and use Battleaxe (+5 To Hit with Str, +6 with Cha) & Throwing Axes (+5 to hit, and they add on the Str bonus to the damage 1d6+2)- that at least puts both up +1.

You could as an alternative go for a Longsword with Javelins for missile weapons (both Heavy Blades) which taken with Weapon Expertise Heavy Blades would be +6 To Hit with Str and +7 with Cha for the Longsword, and +5 with Javelins (again 1d6+2 damage).

The other thing is I'd like to give you the option of some better armour, say a suit of PLatemail that has been passed down your family, and a Heavy Shield if you'll take them-

That would increase your AC which is going to be the thing that takes a beating-

Base (10) + Plate (+8) + Heavy Shield (+2) = 20.
That would make you -4 on some of your Skill Checks, none of your trained ones however.

It would also put your Reflex up to 13.

Again the choices are entirely yours, if I've missed anything then please anyone else in game add your info.

Cheers Goonalan

Pinotage · May 14, 2011

Goonalan said:
I take it you're not messing with your base Stats- no probs.

No, I was going to change them. Something along the lines of:

Code:

Str: 18 (+2 Race)
Dex: 12
Con: 14 (+2 Race)
Wis: 12
Int: 10
Cha: 14

Does that look at little better? With Weapon Expertise (What's the source for that BTW?) that gives a +7 (+4 Str, +2 Prof, +1 WE) with axes.

Powers will then change accordingly as well, e.g. Holy Strike and Paladin's Judgement.

Goonalan said:
The other thing is I'd like to give you the option of some better armour, say a suit of Platemail that has been passed down your family, and a Heavy Shield if you'll take them

That'd be cool. Thanks. Might still stay with the light shield as it leaves your shield hand free. Can then perhaps afford to buy two handaxes for throwing.

Thanks a lot for the help. I'll update a little later.

Pinotage

Goonalan · May 14, 2011

Pinotage said:
No, I was going to change them. Something along the lines of:

Code:

Str: 18 (+2 Race) Dex: 12 Con: 14 (+2 Race) Wis: 12 Int: 10 Cha: 14

Does that look at little better? With Weapon Expertise (What's the source for that BTW?) that gives a +7 (+4 Str, +2 Prof, +1 WE) with axes.

Powers will then change accordingly as well, e.g. Holy Strike and Paladin's Judgement.

That'd be cool. Thanks. Might still stay with the light shield as it leaves your shield hand free. Can then perhaps afford to buy two handaxes for throwing.

Thanks a lot for the help. I'll update a little later.

Pinotage

From the top- Stats much better, although- I know I should really shut up now.

Dex 12, in Heavy (or Medium) Armour gives you a +1 to Ref and +1 on a few skills which are going to be low anyway because of the armour.

Int 10, again...

You've got an all-rounder, although the Dex thing is a little odd, IMHO.

If I was making a Paladin I'd Dex 10 Int 8 and try to soak up the damage, with 4 extra points on the point buy, I could-

1) Str 19 with either Con 15 or Wis 13
2) Con 16 with Wis 13
3) Wis 14 with Con 15
4) Cha 16

or

5) Cha 15 and spread the rest around.

My point would be to boost some of the stats you are going to be drawing on with every round, even using the skills that you possess (or are trained in).

Weapon Expertise is in PHB2
Verstaile Expertise (which seems to allow bonuses in two weapon groups) is in PHB3

To Hit now looks much better.

Hand Axes- not sure what you mean, you can only throw one per round- minor to draw the weapon- standard to throw. I don't think it makes a difference what shield you have.

Cheers Goonalan.

Pinotage · May 14, 2011

All your help is really appreciated. Besides, I'm learning here, and if the character dies quickly, then it's a learning experience. There'll be other dwarves!

That said, The Dex 12 was just because I didn't know where else to put it, but since you get increases at Level 4, I think, it might be best to get something up to an odd-numbered ability score. I'll make a few changes there.

As for the handaxes - I wanted two since after the first throw you've got nothing! At least then he'd have two ranged attacks.

Thanks again for all the help!

Pinotage

Goonalan · May 14, 2011

Pinotage said:
All your help is really appreciated. Besides, I'm learning here, and if the character dies quickly, then it's a learning experience. There'll be other dwarves!

That said, The Dex 12 was just because I didn't know where else to put it, but since you get increases at Level 4, I think, it might be best to get something up to an odd-numbered ability score. I'll make a few changes there.

As for the handaxes - I wanted two since after the first throw you've got nothing! At least then he'd have two ranged attacks.

Thanks again for all the help!

Pinotage

No problem, as to the Hand Axes then you can wear a bandolier, or have some special belt attachment, or something like a quiver except for Hand Axes on your back- as I say think of your PC as already being a veteran, he's ready for adventure, with equipment already in place. You are the 'champion' of you guild or union- ready to take on anything.

I've seen lots of PC Character Sheets with 'Hand Axe x5' written on them- you should certainly take at least two of them.

Cheers Goonalan

Pinotage · May 14, 2011

This time I hope my PC is finally done. Either way, I think it's time to shelve the optimisation and move on to the game. Whatever it's worth! Let me know if I've made any mistakes, please? Background pending.

Thanks

Pinotage

Goonalan's- Forges of the Mountain King PC- Dwarves Only

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