And the Uppity Shoeshine... (DM:twilsemail; Judge: renau1g)

twilsemail · Jul 8, 2011

GM:

Those aren't his defenses, that's what people have hit him with. If a 20 hits his will next turn, I'll adjust the entry.

Luinnar · Jul 8, 2011

This one is not done with you yet! Kaz shouts, jumping up and running over to the other creature before the one next to him has time to react. He brings his axe down upon it, slicing clean through it.

[sblock=actions]
Move:Stand Up
Minor Oath Blue/Green
Standard: Angelic Alacrity Kaz shifts to I17 as part of the attack.
27 vs AC hit for reroll (weapon is brutal 2) 4+7+9=20 damage.
[/sblock]

[sblock=stat block]
Kaz Male Elf Avenger 6,
Initiative: +6, Passive Perception: 25, Passive Insight: 18, Senses: Low Light
AC:22, Fort:18, Reflex:19, Will:21
HP: 58/58, Bloodied:29, Surge Value:14, Surges left:9/9
Action Points: 1

Basic Attack Battlecrazed Executioner's Axe+1, +8 vs AC, 1d12+5 damage (+1d12 on crit, 19-20 threat against undead, +1d6 when bloodied, reroll 1&2 damage)

Powers:
Bond of Pursuit
Overwhelming Strike
~~Angelic Alacrity~~
Oath of Enmity
Abjure Undead/Divine Guidance
Sequestering Strike
Avenger's Resolve
Second Wind
Elven Accuracy
Amulet of Life +1
Aspect of Might
Strength of Many
Soul Seeker
Battlecrazed Executioner's Axe +1

Conditions:
Non-elf allys within 5 square get +1 to perception.

If oath target moves away willingly, +6 damage to next attack. (Censure of Pursuit)

Can shift through difficult terrain (wild step)
[/sblock]

H.M.Gimlord · Jul 8, 2011

OOC:

By my count, Eithal should actually be at 59 (78-9-3-7) since Stone's Endurance reduces damage from each attack by 5.

twilsemail said:
GM: As an aside, does an invisible creature even need to roll stealth to be hidden from enemies? It appears, from a review of the stealth rules, that hidden just makes you invisible.

OOC:

Usually...

As long as creatures have cover at the beginning of the encounter (whether by darkness or obstruction), it's the DM's discretion as to whether they begin in a hidden state. I kind of liked the opening with creatures coming out of the woodwork. Well done!

Once the creature attacks, it is ~~visible~~ hidden until it moves into superior cover (no more than one corner of the occupied square is visible to the target) or total concealment (heavily obscured square not adjacent to target) at which time it can make a stealth check against each characters passive perception. PCs against whom the creature has superior cover/total concealment and who have lower PP than the stealth roll cannot see the creature until it attacks, makes noise, etc... I think there's also a complicated rule about moving more than 2 squares and failing a stealth check at -5. The creature only has to maintain normal cover in order to stay ~~invisible~~ hidden.

Whew! Clear as Mud?

In other words...
I'm assuming that illumination is "dim light", in which case...

None of the creatures on the map have superior cover from any PC.
Red Cap at H12 cannot claim superior cover against anyone but Toeto. Not only this, but he attacked after his move, so he cannot even make the stealth check.

Also, even if we are in darkness rather than dim light, where all creatures have total concealment against all non-adjacent creatures, they cannot make stealth rolls to become ~~invisible~~ hidden since all the bad guys moved before their attacks.

This all, of course, is caveated by the fact that you are the DM, and can choose to alter things how you choose

.

OOC:

Eithal will go last to let the others take advantage of her marks and grabbed state. In other words...

The Croc can't bite you (he's got Eithal in his mouth). If for some reason he has a basic attack with his tail, see the next bullet point.
If you draw an OA from the blue guy at M7 (or the Croc), he's got a -4 to hit and Eithal can use one of her warden powers, so chances are you can attack, get around, or by him(them) without too much trouble)
Whatever you do, don't mark either of these two or it all goes away.

Iron Sky · Jul 9, 2011

OOC:

Hidden > invisible. You can be invisible but not hidden, invisibility just imposes -5 to enemy melee/ranged attacks and allows you to make stealth checks with any movement as though you had superior cover/concealment.

Moving more than 2 squares always imposes a -5 penalty on stealth checks.

[MENTION=44459]Luinnar[/MENTION], don't forget your boon's 1d4 radiant damage.

H.M.Gimlord · Jul 9, 2011

OOC:

Good catch Iron Sky. Thus it is possible for the monsters to be invisible, just not hidden (since all attacked after their move). Right?

Conversely, if you are hidden, you are invisible. Right?

*edit* Invisible creatures also: Don't provoke OAs, and have combat advantage. I think Eithal's marks still apply, though. Right?

The question I have for twilsemail is: Is the invisibility a terrain effect or a property of the creature (or do I need an arcana check to know)? Keep in mind that I'm not debating stuff, I'm just interested for the sake of knowing how to think through Eithal's actions.

Iron Sky · Jul 9, 2011

H.M.Gimlord said:
Good catch Iron Sky. Thus it is possible for the monsters to be invisible, just not hidden (since all attacked after their move). Right?

Conversely, if you are hidden, you are invisible. Right?

*edit* Invisible creatures also: Don't provoke OAs, and have combat advantage. I think Eithal's marks still apply, though. Right?

The question I have for twilsemail is: Is the invisibility a terrain effect or a property of the creature (or do I need an arcana check to know)? Keep in mind that I'm not debating stuff, I'm just interested for the sake of knowing how to think through Eithal's actions.

OOC:

Monsters that are invisible are not hidden unless they make stealth checks. Attacks break stealth. If they attacked after they moved, they aren't invisible.

If you are hidden, enemies have no Line of Sight or Line of Effect to you.

Marks still apply unless they have a power to shed them. Eithal should be able to use Warden Powers since they are triggered by the creature's attacks and the attacks break stealth.

Luinnar · Jul 9, 2011

OOC:

Thanks for reminding me Iron Sky

.

Mind if I retcon my turn a bit twilsemail?

[sblock=actions]
Move:Stand Up
Minor Oath Blue/Green
Free: shift to I17
Standard: Sequestering Strike 27 vs AC hit for reroll (weapon is brutal 2) 4+7+9=20 damage. (using same rolls). The creature teleports to L19, Kaz to L20.
No action: 1 radiant damage done to the creature (boon)[/sblock]

[sblock=statblock]
Kaz Male Elf Avenger 6,
Initiative: +6, Passive Perception: 25, Passive Insight: 18, Senses: Low Light
AC:22, Fort:18, Reflex:19, Will:21
HP: 58/58, Bloodied:29, Surge Value:14, Surges left:9/9
Action Points: 1

Basic Attack Battlecrazed Executioner's Axe+1, +8 vs AC, 1d12+5 damage (+1d12 on crit, 19-20 threat against undead, +1d6 when bloodied, reroll 1&2 damage)

Powers:
Bond of Pursuit
Overwhelming Strike
Angelic Alacrity
Oath of Enmity
Abjure Undead/Divine Guidance
~~Sequestering Strike~~
Avenger's Resolve
Second Wind
Elven Accuracy
Amulet of Life +1
Aspect of Might
Strength of Many
Soul Seeker
Battlecrazed Executioner's Axe +1

Conditions:
Non-elf allys within 5 square get +1 to perception.

If oath target moves away willingly, +6 damage to next attack. (Censure of Pursuit)

Can shift through difficult terrain (wild step)[/sblock]

Mewness · Jul 9, 2011

OOC:

Has Xeterog been around lately?

I'd like it if the croc were pushed up a bit before I go. I suppose I could run behind it and try to hit it a couple of times, but I would want Toeto to shift me out of there again as it seems like a bad place to be.

Dekana · Jul 9, 2011

OOC:

Can do, Mewness. I can't really shift you clear of the croc since it has reach 2, but I can at least get you behind Sprout after your attack.

Mewness · Jul 9, 2011

Scarmiglione darts right through Sprout to get behind the crocodile. His beak opens to emit an ear-shattering "SQUAWK!" that reverberates down the tunnels and produces an explosion of blue-white sparks. While the creature is distracted by that, he slashes at it viciously with his knife.

[sblock=actions]Move: to I7.

Standard: blazing starfall vs Ref, croc (zone K8-M10); damage
5(1d20) +11 = 16; 3(1d4) +15 = 18. If 16 vs. Ref is a hit (doubtful), 18 radiant damage. A zone is created from K8 to M10. Any enemy leaving the zone takes 2 fire.

Minor: low slash vs Ref, croc (+3 flock effect); damage (+4 flanking, +2d6 sneak attack)
9(1d20) +13 +3 = 25; 3(1d4) +6 +4 +5(2d6) = 18 probable hit for 18. Croc is slid to I8-J9 and takes an additional 2 fire for leaving the blazing starfall zone. Croc is also slowed until EONT.

Note that Scarm's AC is modified by the number of opponents adjacent to him. He'll use swift parry as an immediate to avoid being hit if he gets the opportunity to do so.[/sblock]
[sblock=MiniKenku]Scarmiglione Male Kenku Rogue|Sorcerer 6
Initiative: +7, Passive Perception: 18, Passive Insight: 13, Senses: Low-light vision
AC:21 (22), Fort:16, Reflex:20, Will:19; Resist 5 psychic
HP:49/49, Bloodied:24, Surge Value:12, Surges left:7/7
Action Points: 1
Blazing Starfall
Sly Flourish
Wave of Light
~~Low Slash~~
Swift Parry
Songmaster’s Boon (item)
Second Wind
Blinding Barrage
Thunder Leap
Deep Shroud
Shadowdance Armor (item)
Lucky Charm (item)

Phase of the Sun: At the start of my turn, each enemy adjacent to me takes 2 fire and radiant damage; resist 5 cold
Phase of the Moon: Bonus to AC equal to number of conscious adjacent enemies; resist 5 psychic
Phase of the Stars: Whenever an enemy's attack misses me, I can teleport 2 as a free action; resist 5 radiant

First Time Bloodied: Change immediately to next phase.

Conditions: phase of the moon

Full sheet: Scarmiglione[/sblock]