Mercurius
Legend
S'mon's thread got me thinking about tiers and I wanted to explore some ideas, including the question of a "sweet spot" in 4E. In 3.x it was generally considered to be levels 7-12, or thereabouts; previous editions were similar, with different groups preferring different spans, but the most common perspective being mid-levels, or anywhere in the 5-15 range. One of the design considerations for 4E was to widen the sweet spot so that, in theory at least, the entire 30-level range was equally sweet.
Now I personally have only experienced the first 12 levels, so I can't say much beyond early Paragon tier, but so far the verdict is that Paragon tier as a whole is the sweet spot of 4E, imo. Heroic tier was just fine, but Paragon tier is better and, from what I've heard, Epic tier has a whole slew of problems, mainly centered on the lack of support from WotC and, I would imagine, the bottle-necking of possibilities the higher level the party becomes.
I'm a teacher at a relatively unorthodox private high school. One of the benefits of working here is that I get to design my own courses (or at least have the opportunity to do so; most teachers don't stray too far from the typical fare). One of the things I quickly realized is that to know how to design and teach a course, I first need to at least one run through it, a "trial run" so to speak. For instance, my "baby" is a little class called World Building which I taught to a group of fifteen juniors and seniors in the winter. I taught it in a very loose, studio-like manner - I would talk for about 10 minutes and then let them work independently, with me roaming around helping them. A bit further than halfway through the ten-week course I realized that this didn't work all that well for most high school students - as a general rule, they need more form, more guidance. But it was kind of too late at that point, so I just went with it and decided to build in more structure for next time around (next school year).
I bring this up because it is similar to my experience with 4E's tiers and echoes the feeling I had after we completed Heroic tier: I thought, "Now that we've finished that I feel like I could actually DM Heroic tier." But then, of course, we were on to Paragon tier and we're all happy to be playing Paragon characters (I am now a player, with someone else DMing for the time being). It is, I would say, more fun than Heroic.
The three-tier system has immense potential; each is distinct, but they flow together nicely, not unlike a well-written trilogy in which each book could stand alone but should lead into the other. The tiers could even be expanded upon with an earlier "Apprentice" tier and a later "Immortal" tier. But regardless, the heart of the whole system - whether the current three tiers or an expanded five - is Paragon. In Paragon tier, PCs have more options, powers, and are able to do more dynamic actions than in Heroic tier, yet they are not yet super-complex. Monsters and other challenges also start becoming more interesting, and the array of potential adventures becomes more varied, from more involved Heroic-style campaigns to Underdark delving to planar exploration.
S'mon and I both agreed that we'd like to see more guidelines from WotC or 3PPs that exploit the three-tier system; S'mon wants more single-tier campaign guidelines, I would like to see more guidelines and examples of how the tiers can relate to each other, with campaign arcs spanning all three tiers.
There are many ways that you could respond to this thread, but I'd like to see what others say about whether Paragon is the sweet spot of 4E and, if it is not, what is, as well as discussion about the three tiers and how to make a campaign arc over the entire span.
Now I personally have only experienced the first 12 levels, so I can't say much beyond early Paragon tier, but so far the verdict is that Paragon tier as a whole is the sweet spot of 4E, imo. Heroic tier was just fine, but Paragon tier is better and, from what I've heard, Epic tier has a whole slew of problems, mainly centered on the lack of support from WotC and, I would imagine, the bottle-necking of possibilities the higher level the party becomes.
I'm a teacher at a relatively unorthodox private high school. One of the benefits of working here is that I get to design my own courses (or at least have the opportunity to do so; most teachers don't stray too far from the typical fare). One of the things I quickly realized is that to know how to design and teach a course, I first need to at least one run through it, a "trial run" so to speak. For instance, my "baby" is a little class called World Building which I taught to a group of fifteen juniors and seniors in the winter. I taught it in a very loose, studio-like manner - I would talk for about 10 minutes and then let them work independently, with me roaming around helping them. A bit further than halfway through the ten-week course I realized that this didn't work all that well for most high school students - as a general rule, they need more form, more guidance. But it was kind of too late at that point, so I just went with it and decided to build in more structure for next time around (next school year).
I bring this up because it is similar to my experience with 4E's tiers and echoes the feeling I had after we completed Heroic tier: I thought, "Now that we've finished that I feel like I could actually DM Heroic tier." But then, of course, we were on to Paragon tier and we're all happy to be playing Paragon characters (I am now a player, with someone else DMing for the time being). It is, I would say, more fun than Heroic.
The three-tier system has immense potential; each is distinct, but they flow together nicely, not unlike a well-written trilogy in which each book could stand alone but should lead into the other. The tiers could even be expanded upon with an earlier "Apprentice" tier and a later "Immortal" tier. But regardless, the heart of the whole system - whether the current three tiers or an expanded five - is Paragon. In Paragon tier, PCs have more options, powers, and are able to do more dynamic actions than in Heroic tier, yet they are not yet super-complex. Monsters and other challenges also start becoming more interesting, and the array of potential adventures becomes more varied, from more involved Heroic-style campaigns to Underdark delving to planar exploration.
S'mon and I both agreed that we'd like to see more guidelines from WotC or 3PPs that exploit the three-tier system; S'mon wants more single-tier campaign guidelines, I would like to see more guidelines and examples of how the tiers can relate to each other, with campaign arcs spanning all three tiers.
There are many ways that you could respond to this thread, but I'd like to see what others say about whether Paragon is the sweet spot of 4E and, if it is not, what is, as well as discussion about the three tiers and how to make a campaign arc over the entire span.
