What if, instead of 5e (or in addition)...

Aberzanzorax · Jun 25, 2011

....WotC did this:

(Disclaimer, I posted this in another thread, but it got lost pretty easily there. I'm bringing it out again as its own thread because this is a pretty optimistic/positive spin on an option for a business model going forward).

Here's a pipe dream:

What if the Mike Mearls articles (and the other shake ups recently) are an attempt to ACTUALLY resolve edition wars and unify editions?

Instead of a lead up to 5e, what would be amazing to see would be for WotC to release (an) intermediate edition(s) and a beautiful and solid conversion device (including relevant/important fluff), so that anyone could buy a product from ANY edition and quickly and easily convert it to any other edition.

Then they release their full line of PDFs for sale (as part of D&Di or not) for all editions.

Suddenly, I can play 4e, buy a 1e adventure, and EVEN BETTER, IT IS AUTOCONVERTED TO 4E by the device being computerized. I guess I'm suggesting, along with manual pen and paper, that people could buy an app/component of D&Di that would do the conversion for them.

Imagine if, as this series seems to hint, all editions truly could be unified as a "whole D&D" and anyone could play any adventure/class/kit/specialty priest/prestige class/paragon path in the edition of their choice.

If they could do THAT, I'd be back on board with WoTC big time, and I think it could do well to quiet a lot of the edition warring....and actually make new editions welcome rather than controversial. Plus, it would mean all new products they'd sell (an adventure for 5e, 6e, 7e etc) would be usable for people who play 1e, 2e, 3e, and 4e.

If they could do it, I don't think it'd be easy. EDIT: But if they released "intermediate" editions that attempted to capture the focus of the editions they were bridging, I think it'd help.

EDIT TO ADD: I'm thinking that they could write new materials as they do, but with the idea that it'd be converted back to prior editons. In addition they could release multi edition conversions of classics from early editions.

One other important component. I think it'd be very helpful if they were very, very up front about the focuses they were aiming for. Perhaps clarify what the intent of each edition was and say, outright "this adventure is a dungeon/city/exploratory based adventure, and due to some unique elements, is best suited to 2e, 4e, 5e, and 7e".

But man...maybe a pipedream, maybe a dream...but if this is their direction, you could color me interested.

Jack Daniel · Jun 25, 2011

Definitely a pipe dream.

WotC would never waste the money on supporting out of print editions. There's no benefit for them beyond goodwill, and that would never offset the costs.

I would much rather see a 5th edition of the game be simple and traditional with its core rules, with complicated combat and character-build rules in supplements.

I suggested in another thread that the 5th edition of the game should lose the PHB/DMG/MM model and instead start out with a new trilogy of hardcover rulebooks: Core Rules, Advanced Character Options, and Advanced Combat Options.

That would be a game to reunify the player base, because everyone (even players who like simpler, lighter games) would get the core rules, and players who like their D&D with an extra-crunchy flavor would get the other books too.

Aberzanzorax · Jun 25, 2011

While I'd agree supporting out of print models in and of itself would not be lucrative for WotC, I'm not JUST suggesting that.

I'm providing a way for them to sell current material to people playing out of print editions.

I'm also suggesting that classic adventures and their pdfs and such could be used (sold as new) for people playing the current edition.

Beyond goodwill, I'm saying that they could release 5e, and I might want to buy all the splat books for it even if I play 4e, 3e or earlier.

UngainlyTitan · Jun 25, 2011

I do not believe that the premise as stated here is implimentable in any realistic fashion. It is not just a matter of converting stats.
On the other hand, if and when the online tools are mature. In that the software is stable and the development cycle complete. And WoTC have figured out their pricing and marketing.
Would it be worthwhile for them to create a compendium, character builder, etc for each prior edition.

It strikes me that the database that works for 4e should work for 3e and earlier. You have a class, class features, feats and powers. less of the list as one goes back through editions.
So the compendium for the earlier eidtions would work with little or no recoding.
The VTT should work with no recoding. The Character Builder would have to be rebuilt for each edtion.
They do not really need a monster builder.
That could work, would it be enough for supporters of older editions to subscribe?

Whizbang Dustyboots · Jun 25, 2011

Bedrockgames · Jun 25, 2011

Whiile i think a unified edition may be impractical, they could re- issue older editions if they wanted (assuming they have the rights).

Croesus · Jun 25, 2011

Aberzanzorax said:
... so that anyone could buy a product from ANY edition and quickly and easily convert it to any other edition.

This is unworkable for the same reason that many of the older modules converted to 3.x didn't work well - the power levels changed dramatically with 3E.

The most obvious example was the conversion of the classic Giants modules. In 1E the first two were challenging, but not impossible. The third could be tricky if players were not cafeful, but was also beatable.

However, giants in 3E were significantly more powerful than their 1E versions - capable of dealing out far more damage, and taking far more damage in return. Likewise, characters were in many ways less powerful relative to monsters, in part because spell hit point damage didn't change much to compensate for hit point inflation. I quickly realized this when one player's fighter went toe to toe with a single hill giant and was down over half his hit points in a single round.

And that doesn't address what to do about changes in specific classes, spells, and magic items, psionics, the addition of entirely new sub-systems, such as skills and feats, and so on.

Bottom line - more than the rules changed. The underlying math and designs changed and converting material properly is more art than science - and definitely not something that could be automated.

Dice4Hire · Jun 25, 2011

Yeah, converting modules is a lot more than converting the stat portions.

Play styles and character generation has had a huge effect on how the characters go through modules.

It would be good, but this is definitely work for the fans, as it would cost huge amounts of money for WOTC to do this.

Aberzanzorax · Jun 25, 2011

Croesus said:
Bottom line - more than the rules changed. The underlying math and designs changed and converting material properly is more art than science - and definitely not something that could be automated.

Agreed overall.

I don't think it'd be perfect, and it'd be a lot of work...

I do realize to work seamlessly, it'd require a personal touch, particularly to smooth over story elements.

However, i'm thinking that a fair amount of the math could be standardized across editions to provide gross approximations for "insta-conversions".

There would also need to be keywords and such either searched for or added to various editions to apply things that didn't fit (e.g. what feats do you add to an AD&D adventure to convert it to 3e?).

Yes, a beautiful and exceptional conversion would definitely require a human touch. A "quick and dirty" conversion could be done by a computer which read keywords, applied heuristics, and if done really well, would provide options for human conversion (e.g. here are 7 feats, choose 4 that meet your needs).

My overall point isn't that a computer can take the place of a human...but that a computer could aid the work of a human, perhaps to the point where there'd be much less work for a person, and 80-90% or more would be complete (and perhaps the rest could be accomplished on the fly, during play).

LostSoul · Jun 25, 2011

I think the modules from different editions are already very compatible with each other.

I've been playing with a designed-for-AD&D book in my 4E game and I can convert on the fly in my head. It's simple: multiply the HD by 1.5 to get the new level, and from that, all monster stats; anything that requires a save instead requires an attack against the appropriate defence. Spells and special abilities do what they do.

I believe some people (S'mon, perhaps?) run AD&D modules in 3E without making any conversions, just using the monster stats as is. I'm not sure how they do it, though, so I don't know how easy or hard it is.