Imaro
Legend
I really wanted to just let this thread get back on course, but when you get called out by the owner of the site, I guess you really don't have a choice but to offer a rebuttal...
Does not work for what exactly? Unless you have a crystal ball predicting the future and what DDI will do... that's all that has been discussed.
Without the knowledge of what it cost WotC to create and maintain DDI I see no evidence that it is a success either... only time will tell.
What appearances? One minute your claiming we don't know anything then all of a sudden it's "working"? Which one is it? Oh, and on another note, Paizo seems to have no problem selling loads of AP books... Doesn't Enworld sell those as well? Could there be a slight conflict of interest here since you've told us 4e AP"s for WotBS sold better than 3.5 for ENworld?
Who made the comparison between book sales and DDI? And please provide a quote because I don't remember this comparison being made in this thread. Otherwise it just seems like you have a preference and agenda since you don't have any hard evidence either.
What WotC is trying to do is irrelevant to what we are tallking about... and unless D&D = Zynga this comparison is irrelevant as well.
Yet earlier you were claiming there was some sort of evidence that DDI is doing well or is a success... which one is it?
OAN: No one comapred book sales to DDI, why do you keep bringing this up?
The weird thing is they had way more books on their schedule at one time... and cancelled them, it seems if they're plan from the beginning was to stop selling books and go towards a digital model... those books would have never been on the release schedule... right?
What is obvious...again make up your mind, do we not have complete evidence... or is it obvious? No one has compared book sales to DDI sales... except you. And while you claim neutrality you infer that DDI is a success.... so which one is it?
Who has done this? Again, show me a post or quote where someone said Paizo's book sales are greater than DDI... you can't. However your own bias is coming through in that there is no definite evidence that says DDI has generated more revenue than Paizo's book sales, yet you continue to post like you have some.
What exactly is this proof of, concerning the DDI or Paizo? Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence. All this really shows is that you have real financial reasons for supporting 4e as opposed to Pathfinder or 3.x
I can certainly understand criticisms of WotC. I have my own. But what on earth leads anyone to believe that the DDI model does not work?
Does not work for what exactly? Unless you have a crystal ball predicting the future and what DDI will do... that's all that has been discussed.
I see no evidence that this is the case. I have seen may esitimated DDI subscription figures based on various things (the mosty common being related to the number of members of a WotC social group only accessible by DDI members, and which has an astonishingly high member count).
Without the knowledge of what it cost WotC to create and maintain DDI I see no evidence that it is a success either... only time will tell.
The DDI model, by all appearances so far, seems to work. It seems to work better than the "print loads of books and hope people buy them" model. It might not be our own individual preference, but I see no room for implication that it's not working.
What appearances? One minute your claiming we don't know anything then all of a sudden it's "working"? Which one is it? Oh, and on another note, Paizo seems to have no problem selling loads of AP books... Doesn't Enworld sell those as well? Could there be a slight conflict of interest here since you've told us 4e AP"s for WotBS sold better than 3.5 for ENworld?
Paizo's book sales have nothing to do with this. What we're looking at is WotC's attempt to shift the marketplace. Whether they'll be ultimately successful or not is another discussion, but trotting out Paizo's book sales vs. WotC's is as silly at this point as comparing Paizo's book sales vs. Blizzards WoW book sales. Hey - Pathfinder is bigger than World of Warcraft! [Hint - it isn't, but Paizo does probably sell more books].
Who made the comparison between book sales and DDI? And please provide a quote because I don't remember this comparison being made in this thread. Otherwise it just seems like you have a preference and agenda since you don't have any hard evidence either.
WotC is attempting to shift the market to an online subscription model. A model that has lower costs, and thus higher profitability. Hell, many CRPGs have gone free-to-play and relied on in-game micropayments. Are we going to say that Zynga (that producers of Farmville) are unsiccessful because they haven't sold any DVDs of their game? It's currentl;y valued at $1.5 billion.
What WotC is trying to do is irrelevant to what we are tallking about... and unless D&D = Zynga this comparison is irrelevant as well.
We don't really know WotC's subscription numbers. We can guess. We can use evidence such as that above. But we don't know. But there is a lot of evidence that DDI is succeeding and none that I'm aware of that it is not. And comparing books sales to a company that's moved to online subscriptions as its primary revenue base is just silly.
Yet earlier you were claiming there was some sort of evidence that DDI is doing well or is a success... which one is it?
OAN: No one comapred book sales to DDI, why do you keep bringing this up?
WotC's book sales are low because WotC has stopped selling books. WotC is closer (in nature, not size) to Blizzard than Paizo.
The weird thing is they had way more books on their schedule at one time... and cancelled them, it seems if they're plan from the beginning was to stop selling books and go towards a digital model... those books would have never been on the release schedule... right?
This has to be obvious. It has NOTHING to do with edition popularity. It's about sales venue, and WotC's sales venue is not in the fading FLGS scene. It's in tens of thousands of credit cards buying incremental rules additions each on on DDI and using their Character Builder and other tools.
What is obvious...again make up your mind, do we not have complete evidence... or is it obvious? No one has compared book sales to DDI sales... except you. And while you claim neutrality you infer that DDI is a success.... so which one is it?
How is it possible that this isn't obvious? How can people - with a straight face - use book sales in FLGSs as a basis of a game's popularity in the 21st century? Really?
Who has done this? Again, show me a post or quote where someone said Paizo's book sales are greater than DDI... you can't. However your own bias is coming through in that there is no definite evidence that says DDI has generated more revenue than Paizo's book sales, yet you continue to post like you have some.
We sold a crap load of WotBs adventures in various venues. The big one was the EN World subscription. I guarantee it sold more copies than most of the things you see in your FLGS. Your FLGS owner, however, knows nothing of it. Our ZEITGEIST Player's Guide just got 9000 downloads in a week. Survey FLGS's and find one that's even heard of it. The market is moving. It has been for a decade, and over the next decade it will do so more. Asking booksellers about a game's popularity is pointless in this age.
What exactly is this proof of, concerning the DDI or Paizo? Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence. All this really shows is that you have real financial reasons for supporting 4e as opposed to Pathfinder or 3.x
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