Adventuring Classes: For a Few Denarii More (now taking requests)

pawsplay · Jul 4, 2011

You asked for it, so here it comes. Announcing the sequel to Adventuring Classes: A Fistful of Denarii.

This is an open call for feedback on these class concepts. After I finish up some school stuff in the next few weeks, I'm prepping alpha versions of these classes for playtesting. I would like to know what sounds appealing, what doesn't, and what I may be missing. Particularly I want to know if there are archetypes related to adventuring in a non-dungeoncrawling context, like intrigue or exploration, that are not covered very well by existing options.

The list as it stands now:

BASE CLASSES
Assassin - Hired killer (as a base class; similar concepts have been done, is there a place for another?)
Athlete - Physical challenger, capable of astounding acts
Courtier - Expert of intrigue, wealth, and influence
Emissary - Master negotiator
Jongleur - Master of performance and feats of dexterity
Musketeer - Firearms wielder and skilled

PRESTIGE CLASSES
Sharpshooter - Expert of ranged combat with a talent for stealth
Temptress/Tempter - Uses the art of seduction to gain power over others
Trickster Adept - Fusion of roguish talents with casting talents
War Captain - Specializes in leading and directing others

fireinthedust · Jul 4, 2011

Assassin: if you have to ask, it means you have an idea for one. Heck, this is why we make up our own rules sets: what works for you.

Dark Mistress · Jul 4, 2011

I commented over at the thread you started at Paizo. Only posting here to help draw attention to the thread.

RoryN · Jul 4, 2011

I personally have never been a big fan of assassins or gunpowder in my games, so I have no interest in either of those, although an assassin as an NPC would be useable to me. As for the others listed, I am most interested in the Courtier and Emissary, but it seems like those two ideas might work well being mixed together...expert of intigue, influence & master negotiator just seem to mix well in my opinion.

pawsplay · Jul 4, 2011

fireinthedust said:
Assassin: if you have to ask, it means you have an idea for one. Heck, this is why we make up our own rules sets: what works for you.

So it does.

SteelDraco · Jul 4, 2011

I would probably combine the Athelete and the Jongelour, as well as the Courtier and Emissary. I'm not sure there's enough conceptual space for them to be different base classes.

A Jongelour would be an Athelete who gains some benefit from his Charisma and Perform skill, using his physical prowess to entertain. Both are focused on physical skills, they just use them differently. Different archetypes would be sufficient.

Same thing for Emissary and Courtier. I'd love to see your take on a non-magical Charisma skill class, something like the Rokugan Courtier class or Star War's Noble. I think that archetype is missing from the game currently. I'm just not sure I'd make them different classes.

paradox42 · Jul 4, 2011

How is the Musketeer different from the Gunslinger that we know is coming in Ultimate Combat? Is it a Medium-BAB class like a gun-toting Rogue? The "skilled" notation in the class blurb suggests that, but I thought it worth clarifying.

pawsplay · Jul 4, 2011

paradox42 said:
How is the Musketeer different from the Gunslinger that we know is coming in Ultimate Combat? Is it a Medium-BAB class like a gun-toting Rogue? The "skilled" notation in the class blurb suggests that, but I thought it worth clarifying.

It will be a full BAB class. It will not have "grit." It will offer a little more than simply shooting things.

1Mac · Jul 6, 2011

I like the concepts listed so far. It seems that something like the Sharpshooter or Trickster could be a full base class.

I think SteelDraco has a good point, that some concepts could be framed as variations of larger concepts. I had a related thought: When you wrote the original "Denarii" book, the idea of archetypes as presented in the Advanced Player's Guide had not yet been borne, but a lot of classes from that book could be repurposed that way. The beast master and bounty hunter seem like ranger archetypes, the corsair is a barbarian archetype, corbie and spy from rogue, martial artist from monk, knight from fighter, and so on. It's probably something I could retrofit on my own, but would that be something you might consider doing, either for the original Denarii classes or these new ones?

SSuser · Jul 6, 2011

I am happy to hear that you will be releasing a sequel to A Fistful of Denarii. I'll be looking for it on Lulu. I liked FoD, and I'd give it 4/5 stars. It's a fun and inexpensive class book, with a lot of options. As for feedback here goes. I prefer to call FoD, The Complete book of Uncanny Dodge. I lent my copy to a friend, so I don't have it in front of me. If I recall correctly it featured 11 classes, eight of which had Uncanny Dodge. That's far too much use of the same class ability spread throughout the entire book. Out of the core 11 classes only two have that ability. It felt like you added Uncanny Dodge to any class that had dead levels and needed filler. Whether it fit the class or not.

fireinthedust said:
Assassin: if you have to ask, it means you have an idea for one. Heck, this is why we make up our own rules sets: what works for you.

I disagree. I'd say if you have to ask, then you are already hesitant to re-make a class that's been done before.

I like the idea of a musketeer. Hopefully it will compliment the upcoming gunslinger, without paralleling it. I used to be anti black powder. I preferred black powder to be used as a gm's tool, something to awe the players. Not something that players have access to. I've reached a point now where I realize it doesn't matter. So long as the class is not broken, and their weapon is comparable to an other. Then it doesn't really matter, unless it would upset the setting. Bar that, call it a bow and arrow, or a magic bolt, or even a musket and ball. If it follows the basic rules of shots per round and it deals damage dX, call it what ever you want. The rest is just role-playing fluff.

If the Athlete and Jongleur serve similar purposes, than I'd consider combining the classes.

I'd keep the Courtier and Emissary separate, so long as they don't mechanically function the same.

Sharpshooter - Can you do something with this prestige class that can't be done with the fighter, ranger, or rogue?
Temptress/Tempter - meh.
Trickster Adept - Sounds like the 3.0 arcane trickster.
War Captain - I love it. I'd make this a full class variant though. Strong attack, good saves in willpower and fortitude. Add in class abilities, or even some bard-like spells.