Pathfinder RPG Paizo Copyright Issues at Obsidian Portal? - Page 18


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  1. #171
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    ° Ignore Marius Delphus
    Quote Originally Posted by pawsplay View Post
    Technically correct according to whom? "I am he" is technically correct.
    Though it sounds strange to many modern English speakers, it is correct, because "am" is a form of the verb "to be," a linking verb (not a preposition). "It is I," "the culprit was she," and so forth are other examples of the rule.
    ŚMarius

 

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAuldGrump View Post
    Actually, S&W is updated frequently and is considered comprehensive.
    By whom? Not by me. I first read it cover to cover about 19 years ago, and I had to memorize it for AP English Comp. But it's a short book with a very clear focus.

    In other words - it is 'By whom' not 'by who', always.
    That is a real rule. But it can protentially conflict with another rule.

    The book is by who wrote it.

    You wouldn't say "by whom wrote it," would you? In fact, a pronoun has been elided. The full sentence would be, "The book is by he who wrote it."

    You could certainly write, "The book is by him who wrote it." That would fulfill your rule. But now our pronoun and the who in the clause are not in agreement. So we are left with a choice:

    The book is by he who wrote it.
    The book is by him whom wrote it.

    So let's try replacing the who/whom.

    The book is by he (he wrote it).
    The book is by him (him wrote it).

    Clearly, the him/whom is out of place. So clearly, "The book is by him who wrote it," is preferable. The "who" is "the guy who wrote it." When we elide the pronoun, in one case, and clause, in the other, we end up with:

    The book is by him.
    The book is by who wrote it.


    So as you can see, it is "always" by whom, but since it always who wrote it, the rules conflict.

    Since it far more likely that

    It was he who committed hypocrisy.

    than

    It was hypocrisy who committed him.

    I choose who.

  • #173
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    ° Ignore Marius Delphus
    No, the rule does not conflict with any other rules. When "who/whom" isn't the object of the preposition, which to use is determined by different criteria.
    • In the original sentence which started this whole digression, it's "Hypocrisy by whom, precisely?" because in that sentence "whom" is the object of the preposition "by."
    • In different sentences altogether, obviously one applies the rules that are appropriate to those sentences. For example, though "It was he who committed hypocrisy" is grammatically correct, it doesn't follow that you can then say "the hypocrisy was committed by he," because that's a different sentence altogether.

    Now, can we please move on?
    ŚMarius

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    ° Ignore Relique du Madde
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    Nice way to derail the thread.

    Coincidentally, isn't entering into a grammar debate one of the auto lose buttons on the net? All we need now is for someone to enact Godwin's law so this thread can be closed.

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    It wasn't a sentence. A preposition modifies a phrase, and there is no phrase for it to modify.

    EDIT: Wikipedia explaining why I am right:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whom#Ru...ditional_usage
    Last edited by pawsplay; Monday, 11th July, 2011 at 01:41 AM.

  • #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAuldGrump View Post
    Actually, S&W is updated frequently and is considered comprehensive.
    I can't give you XP, but let me link some unflattering commentary on S&W I demur to retype myself:

    The Elements of Style - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  • #177
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    ° Ignore carmachu
    Quote Originally Posted by C_M2008 View Post
    I'm not interested in either WoTC or Paizo's offerings at this point (being a convert to the glories of Warhammer FRP 3e), but I thought I'd play devil's
    advocate.

    Whenever WoTC issues a cease and desist there is widespread outrage.

    Now that Paizo has issued a C&D they are just "protecting their intellectual property"?

    Is this not blatant hypocrisy?

    Like I said, just raising a point, I don't really have a horse in the race anymore.
    Or perhaps its one company has earned more then a bit of goodwill, while the other has pissed theirs away. I see it all the time in the Games workshop/Privateer press discussions- GW has no good will to bank on anymore, heck its in the negatives. PP on the other hand, is much like piazo, honest, forthcoming, communicates well with its fans.....and has earned some good will, which in turn wont provoke teh same reaction. GW isnt cut any breaks....PP is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carmachu View Post
    Or perhaps its one company has earned more then a bit of goodwill, while the other has pissed theirs away. I see it all the time in the Games workshop/Privateer press discussions- GW has no good will to bank on anymore, heck its in the negatives. PP on the other hand, is much like piazo, honest, forthcoming, communicates well with its fans.....and has earned some good will, which in turn wont provoke teh same reaction. GW isnt cut any breaks....PP is.
    This explains the reactions we've seen.

    It doesn't excuse those reactions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannager View Post
    This explains the reactions we've seen.

    It doesn't excuse those reactions.
    I value being able to believe someone is acting out of goodwill.

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