Pathfinder 1E Paizo Copyright Issues at Obsidian Portal?

Zil · Jul 6, 2011

Maggan said:
I don't think I would make a stink if I recieved a C&D from GW. Remove the offending material, and that'd be it. And if that weren't enough, take down the site and put up another one for another game. Or something like that.

/M

Yea, exactly. That or put it behind a password wall so that it is just for the campaign's players.

I actually ran into the Paizo IP patrol some time back for doing something very similar - a private web site dedicated to the Rise of the Runelords campaign I was running. I had broken apart the PDF of the first adventure and included some of the artwork plus bits and pieces of background text for the players. It was never intended for public consumption... however, one of my players went and posted a link to it on a forum somewhere and then Google and the like started to crawl through the private site and before I knew it I had a fairly friendly cease and desist letter. It basically amounted to please remove the offending material or put it behind a password so that it is not generally accessible.

I ended up cleaning up the site and learning about what Paizo images were fair game (basically what appeared in their community release download sets or on the various Paizo blogs). In the end it wasn't a big deal at all and I learned to be a bit more careful with someone else's IP on the wide open Internet.

Alan Shutko · Jul 6, 2011

GMforPowergamers said:
Now I am just pissed at the hypocrisy... and as much as I like the people at piazo, and dislike there game... I will say this is a BIG thing that pisses me off about piazo fans...

Companies are judged by their past actions. Paizo has built up enough of a reputation to be given the benefit of the doubt until we know more. WotC has had a much more troubled relationship with fans over the last few years. But in the past there have been a lot of people defending WotC for various C&Ds they've put out as well.

Personally, I want to know what the C&D looked like, what it specifically said, and what the icons were like. The guy running the campaign has been quiet on those respects beyond a "Hey, we got a C&D so we're taking stuff private."

Zil · Jul 6, 2011

GMforPowergamers said:
Now I am just pissed at the hypocrisy... and as much as I like the people at piazo, and dislike there game... I will say this is a BIG thing that pisses me off about piazo fans...

But they were so polite about their request (and dealing with their community of customers/fans in general) that it is difficult to be outraged. I know that the letter I received was almost apologetic at their being forced to take this action (i.e. to request my removing offending material from a publicly accessible campaign site). After the initial shock, it was hard to actually be angry with them because (a) they were in the right and (b) they were so polite about it.

billd91 · Jul 6, 2011

GMforPowergamers said:
You know I read the news and said "Great 200 page threads about how evil protecting your IP is" then got here and found almost no one saying 'burn the evil corp"

Now I am just pissed at the hypocrisy... and as much as I like the people at piazo, and dislike there game... I will say this is a BIG thing that pisses me off about piazo fans...

Hey, thanks for painting with such a broad brush. Unless you can find specific people dinging WotC while supporting Paizo for doing the same thing, you haven't found any hypocrisy at all.

Patryn of Elvenshae · Jul 6, 2011

fuzzlewump said:
Let's Plays are videos of full playthroughs of a game from beginning to end. It's generally not truncated and shows the entire game completely.

Exactly. Which is why I provided some examples for DA (and anyone else interested) to review (one a screenshot LP, and one a video LP, which are the two main methods).

Morrus · Jul 6, 2011

GMforPowergamers said:
You know I read the news and said "Great 200 page threads about how evil protecting your IP is" then got here and found almost no one saying 'burn the evil corp"

Now I am just pissed at the hypocrisy... and as much as I like the people at piazo, and dislike there game... I will say this is a BIG thing that pisses me off about piazo fans...

I'm confused. Is this addressed to specific people? Presumably you are "pissed" at certain people in this thread who didn't say "Burn the evil corp" but did say that in a similar WotC-related thread?

Does such a creature exist?

I can certainly understand why you'd think such a person was hypocritical - enough to use big fonts and caps, no less! - but I'm not personally aware of any such person. But you may have been tracking these individuals more closely than I.

Umbran · Jul 6, 2011

Maggan said:
Some of them were mighty small.

I have a hard time seeing how posting pictures that small could be detrimental to Paizo's IP.

I imagine there's a question of precedent on their minds.

For copyrighted material, you don't have to defend it for your rights to remain valid, but Paizo is still confronted with a slippery slope: One guy uses tiny images, that really aren't any harm. The next person uses slightly larger images, the next even larger - so long as Paizo doesn't act, there's going to be a tendency for folks to push the envelope. So, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me for them to attempt to nip it in the bud.

Reynard · Jul 6, 2011

billd91 said:
Hey, thanks for painting with such a broad brush. Unless you can find specific people dinging WotC while supporting Paizo for doing the same thing, you haven't found any hypocrisy at all.

::sigh:: There are never "specific" anything -- no examples, no links, not first hand accounts. It is always second hand accounts and urban legends and misremembered wrongs. And, of course, it is always "Paizo fans" -- all of us, presumably.

Dannager · Jul 6, 2011

billd91 said:
Hey, thanks for painting with such a broad brush. Unless you can find specific people dinging WotC while supporting Paizo for doing the same thing, you haven't found any hypocrisy at all.

I think his point was that we're four pages in and haven't seen that kind of behavior yet, from anyone. It's hard to believe that some of them aren't aware that this issue has come up, but apparently none of them have popped in to express their personal outrage.

This is, at best, selective outrage (targeted at a single company that they hate irrespective of the issue at hand, and ignoring another company they like irrespective of the issue at hand), and hypocrisy at worst (if one of them actually has posted in here, but to support Paizo rather than attack them).

I'd really prefer it if everyone were able to keep their heads and not get upset over any company utilizing the law to protect itself. But, inevitably, those people will return the moment WotC issues a C&D.

sjmiller · Jul 6, 2011

C_M2008 said:
I'm not interested in either WoTC or Paizo's offerings at this point (being a convert to the glories of Warhammer FRP 3e), but I thought I'd play devil's
advocate.

Whenever WoTC issues a cease and desist there is widespread outrage.

Now that Paizo has issued a C&D they are just "protecting their intellectual property"?

Is this not blatant hypocrisy?

Like I said, just raising a point, I don't really have a horse in the race anymore.

I, for one, have no problem with either company protecting their intellectual property. When I am in their situation I will do the same. In the past I have stood up for WotC when they do a C&D even though I don't necessarily like their IP. I understand the fanatic devotion to your company of choice, but that does not excuse fist waving at a very common business practice.