Proposal/Discussion Allow Themes

Luinnar · Aug 9, 2011

As Living Eberron passed themes I thought I'd make a proposal. Wizards is continuing support themes with the upcoming Neverwinter book and Dragon articles (Heroes of Feywild and Kara Tur Oriental themes were mentioned at Gencon).

Theme structure is generally:
Level 1: Encounter power that is about as powerful as an at-will.

Level 5: Small bonus like a skill bonus (usually non-combat related).

Level 10: Usually a small bonus like a skill bonus (usually non-combat related).

Neverwinter may be a bit different, I don't have the book yet. Darksun does not give you the level 5 & 10 bonus.

Most theme have powers you can choose from instead of your class powers.

So my proposal is to either:

A. Allow themes from all sources (including Darksun). Themes that do not fit into the L4W setting MUST be re-flavored by the player if there are to be used in any way besides game mechanics (i.e. No Red Wizards of Thay, but you could be a renegade of another arcane academy).

B. Allow themes, but by a case-by-case basis.

I'm also willing to come up with some generic themes for those who don't have access to any of the materials if the judges feel that we should have them.

stonegod · Aug 9, 2011

Has it been a month since the last vote?

The Dark Sun and non-Dark Sun themes are not the same power-level (just like the FR and non-FR backgrounds). I only voted for the LEB themes if we had a generic theme to replace it (so non DDI folks have an option). I would recommend L4W do the same if they adopt them.

Luinnar · Aug 9, 2011

Themes were disallowed until further notice in May. Also there were two, discussions about it in May, but nothing was voted on.

Darksun themes are less powerful, but players still may want to take them for the powers (like Noble Adept).

twilsemail · Aug 9, 2011

I don't get a spiffy coloured vote like the judges, but I'd like to see the Dark Sun themes stay out of the game here at L4W. If they do come in I'd like to see them modified, some more heavily than others.

There are some awesome themes in there, but I don't think they're comparable to everything else that WotC is putting out now. I think that saying they're less powerful is a bit misleading. In several ways I'd say they're more potent.

modus666 · Aug 10, 2011

i would say that at low levels the themes add just a SMALL amount of 'oomph' to the average character. however the inclusion of one extra encounter power (which may, or may not scale a bit with level, depending on the theme) does not overtly overpower most pc's. themes have been included in our home PnP games since their arrival in Dark Sun and everyone enjoys them. they add a nice amount of flavor for certain pc types with a little crunch to back it up.

covaithe · Aug 10, 2011

renau1g · Aug 10, 2011

I'd definitely not want the DS ones here. Just my two coppers.

I really like themes and definitely don't mind having another encounter power, especially at low heroic where after round 1 (or 2) you're on at-wills (except when you use a daily), which isn't exactly the most exciting thing. So I would likely be fine with allowing all post-DS themes (aka the ones from Dragon XXX I forget the "issue" and the ones from Neverwinter) assuming they're re-flavored properly (aka no Red Wizards or Harpers here in L4W)

Edit: Wow, post 16,000..... damn that's a lot....

stonegod · Aug 11, 2011

FYI: The Neverwinter themes are now in the Character Builder if anyone wants a look.

I like themes as mentioned, but a default should be included. Here's the one from LEB:

twilsemail said:
Level 1: Adventurer's Grit
Encounter*Free Action
Trigger: You fail a skill check
Effect: Spend one healing surge. You may re-roll the triggering skill check.

Level 5: Been There, Done That - You gain a +2 bonus on monster knowledge checks.

Level 10: True Adventurer - Once per day you may reroll an Acrobatics, Athletics or Endurance check.

Luinnar · Aug 11, 2011

Since people seem to dislike Dark Sun themes, I would like to change my proposal.

"Allow themes (excluding those from the Dark Sun Campaign Setting). Themes that do not fit into the L4W setting MUST be re-flavored by the player if they are to be used in any way besides game mechanics (i.e. No Renegade Red Wizards of Thay, but you could be a renegade of another arcane academy)."

If it is adopted, I would also like to propose twilsemail's Adventure theme as the default for those who don't have access to themes:

Originally Posted by twilsemail
Level 1: Adventurer's Grit
Encounter*Free Action
Trigger: You fail a skill check
Effect: Spend one healing surge. You may re-roll the triggering skill check.

Level 5: Been There, Done That - You gain a +2 bonus on monster knowledge checks.

Level 10: True Adventurer - Once per day you may reroll an Acrobatics, Athletics or Endurance check.

Mewness · Aug 11, 2011

I'll see Covaithe's "meh" and raise it to a "bleah." I dislike both Dark Sun and non-Dark Sun themes. The only way I would get behind themes would be if we could (a) generate some generic ones that everyone would have access to and (b) if the themes we allowed had no combat utility whatever.