How to build a throwing fighter ?

Trenien · Aug 14, 2011

Hi all!

Although I'm a long time rpg player (of various games, including D&D 3.0 and variants), up to this point I have never played with the Pathfinder family set of rules. A friend of mine is about to start a campaign with it and will allow us to create level 4 characters with any rules frome the basic player to the ultimate magic book (and maybe ultimate combat if we get our hands on one). The question is, what to create ?

I have this vague idea of creating a fighting character whose main shtick is moving around the battlefield while throwing things at targets (yes, I AM aware that thrown weapons have pitiful damage rates). At the same time, I'd like a character who can do something outside of battle (which seems to throw a pure fighter right out).

I'm contemplating the idea of a a multiclass character (fighter/alchemist), but I'm not quite sure how good, or bad, this would be...

Any thoughts, or advices ?

Herobizkit · Aug 14, 2011

I would almost consider taking Rogue over Fighter for the throwing shtick (mostly due to Sneak Attack damage) were it not for the feat requirements.

Using a thrown weapon that can also be wielded in melee is key.

Feats that are pretty much required:
Point Blank Shot (the base feat)
Precise Shot (to offset -4 to firing into melee)
Quick Draw (to free action a second weapon for...)
Rapid Shot (to throw twice a round)

StreamOfTheSky · Aug 14, 2011

You would want only Fighter 2 for feats, you need sneak attack to make the thrown attacks mean something. Vivvesectionist Alchemist does trade bombs for sneak attack, though rogue may be a better choice because you can snag at least one bonus feat with it, and the build is feat heavy.

In any case, by around level 6, the character will become less and less viable with each passing level because PF currently does not have a Bloodstorm Blade type ability to full attack with the same weapon (Returning property is expensive and just doesn't cut it) nor even items like the gloves of endless javelins from MIC, which lets you free action produce unlimited +1 javelins so you could actually deal with DR /magic, at least.

Herobizkit · Aug 14, 2011

... If he picks Human Rogue, and the DM allows Flaws, he might be able to get the 4 feats he needs at level 1.

Edit: Bah, nope. Quick Draw needs BAB +1 (considering Rogues are more likely to use it than Fighters, I find this droll and sad.)

Trenien · Aug 14, 2011

StreamOfTheSky said:
In any case, by around level 6, the character will become less and less viable with each passing level because PF currently does not have a Bloodstorm Blade type ability to full attack with the same weapon (Returning property is expensive and just doesn't cut it) nor even items like the gloves of endless javelins from MIC, which lets you free action produce unlimited +1 javelins so you could actually deal with DR /magic, at least.

I may have read it wrong, but I've understood that quick draw allow you to use your full attack with thrown weapons. Compounding that with the fact that I'm pretty sure my DM would allow me to retrieve most of my weapons at the end of a fight, I'm not sure a returning weapon is all that necessary (we're going to play between level 4 and 9).

Looking around, I'm getting to the point where I think my initial idea (fighter/alchemist) isn't very efficient for the result I'm looking for. Since I'm not especially gung-ho on either classes (they're just means to an end), that's all right. The main thing is to be able to build a character that's as close as possible to the idea I've had.

Basically, I want a support "fighter" which will be able to things outside of combat. As the Spring Attack route isn't very good (nor all that interesting since, apparently, PF's writers have decided to nerf Tumble), ranged look better for what I'm trying to achieve. The thrown weapons idea is just a quirk of mine (I'm getting tired of the supporting archer), and I've just seen the chakram makes it not all that bad (trade-off : direct STR bonus to damages without needing a special composite bow / diminished range).

It appear a build made around either a Bard or a Ranger (I'm pretty sure I can convince my DM to exchange the bow path with a thrown weapons path).

Any advice on that ?

By the by, is there any feat similar to Arcane Strike that a ranger could use ?

StreamOfTheSky · Aug 14, 2011

BAB +1 feats are annoyingly common, and poor medium BABers often have to wait till level 3 to start on any chains they entail (especially irritating with weapon focus). Which is why it's often a good idea for martial-inclined medium BAB classes to dip a full BAB class at level 1. It's a shame, but true.

StreamOfTheSky · Aug 14, 2011

Arcane Strike isn't a good feat, you have way more useful ones you need first as a ranged character.Fighter is fine as a dip. Viv. Alchemist or Rogue's sneak attack damage makes throwing somewhat viable.

I said you need returning because eventually you'll want magical weapons to overcome DR /magic. I guess you could load up on just +1 weapons and retrieve them after the fight, but then you'd need quite a few potentially. And I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing many thousands of gp away and hoping it'll still be there when the combat's over.

Build advice: what books are allowed? Ultimate Combat has a ton of new feats, a fraction of which are actually useful.

Trenien · Aug 14, 2011

StreamOfTheSky said:
I said you need returning because eventually you'll want magical weapons to overcome DR /magic. I guess you could load up on just +1 weapons and retrieve them after the fight, but then you'd need quite a few potentially. And I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing many thousands of gp away and hoping it'll still be there when the combat's over.

It's for this very reason I'm considering Arcane Strike.

As for the books, up to Ultimate Magic is a given. If we can get Ultimate Combat, it'll be allowed as well.

If I may, what kind of feats are interesting in there ?

Shisumo · Aug 14, 2011

Unless you're looking specifically for trapfinding, I suspect the thing you will find most useful out of Ultimate Combat is the knife master rogue archetype, which has d8 sneak attack dice when using daggers or other small blades - this would work as well for thrown daggers as for melee ones, from what I can tell.

StreamOfTheSky · Aug 14, 2011

UC has the Clustered Shots feat, for one thing. When you make a full attack with a ranged weapon, you tally up the damage against a target from all hits and then apply any damage reduction it has ONCE, to the totaled damage, instead of applying it to every single hit. This is a huge relief for overcoming DR.

I'm not sure if it was intended when you use the feat that you only can attack one target, but as written, you can divide up your attacks as you like and simply apply Clustered Shots on any foe you hit more than once.