HM's Skull & Shackles AP-OOC

HolyMan · Sep 4, 2011

I think you are missing what the ranger adds to that archtype and vice versa. I agree it will be a hard class in the beginning but once you hit 6th lvl that is all dead and gone.. With the Weapon Shield Style you get Shield Master at 6th lvl (normally not allowed till 11th lvl).

This gives you no penalty to attack with a shield in your off hand and the shield's AC bonus to hit and damage. Your arcane pool allowing you to enhance the shield's AC bonus means you enhance your to hit and damage.

I can't see them making every class with an arcane bond having to buy back their items or even going more than one or two combats before they get them back. But everyone who has arcane bond should play without the item to understand how important it is to the character and not "take it for granted".

Only other Combat Style I see to fit would be Natural Weapon. It says you get to chose weapon focus - but doesn't say that you can't make that a regular weapon.

The archtype by itself I'm not so hot about but with the better BAB, abilities (favored enemy or go Guide/Skirmisher and get Ranger's Focus), and the extra feats I believe would help it along.

HM

rangerjohn · Sep 4, 2011

Even if everything you say is true, it basically leaves us with two bards at best.
Magus is below wizard to begin with in spell casting, and then diminished spell casting on top of that?

HolyMan · Sep 4, 2011

It depends on how you wish to play the character rangerjohn, not what the crunch gives you.

A Magnus is a frontline fighter (I believe) due to his spell selection and class abilities. You get to add to his AC by gaining a shield (and not having to cast it) and add to that.

Let's say first level studded leather, (what did you say for dex? I see it 16) DEX 16, heavy shield and shield focus. AC = 19 (20 with arcane pool bonus)

This keeps you in the game to go toe to toe with whatever the AP throws at you. And you play a tough and ready warrior-mage.

Or go the quick tumble out type. Lose Shield Focus (but this is a +1 when you get Shield Master, btw) and gain Dodge. AC is the same but you are preparing for when you take mobility and can get out of melee to cast a spell or use a wand at range. Take a trait that gives you Acrobatics as a class skill.

Shield and wand - (make a good combo for a gnome).

All in how you wish to play it. The crunch will come.

HM

rangerjohn · Sep 4, 2011

Not saying its a bad archtype, just one already represented by Mowgli.

rangerjohn · Sep 4, 2011

Looking at it another way, your building a tank. Just one problem, who is he tanking for? I'm supposed to be the primary spell caster as far as I can see.

HolyMan · Sep 4, 2011

I wanted to check the group so let me see...

Gestalt game:

Mowgi - Fighter/Bard
BH - Barbarian/Rogue (although pirate loses trapfinding)
rangerjohn - Magnus/Ranger
?? - healing/range maybe?

So you are the primary arcane in that you will have the most spells at your disposal, but at first level you still only get to cast two first level.

So if you tank and flank with the barbarian - the bard supports and the forth person - umm... does what they do. LOL Then their looks to be a little balance.

What role do you wish the Magnus to play? Maybe the others can tweak their ideas to help.

Other Group so far has...

Kadoi - Ninja (Pirate PrC)
sunshadow21 - Storm Druid
kinem - Alchemist

Looks like I'll be NPCing some warriors to help them out.

HM

rangerjohn · Sep 4, 2011

I wanted him to do what it appeared the magus was designed to do. Be decent at melee and spell casting. At this point he is neither. He has a decent ac not great but decent. Will be doing about the damage of the bard, probably less than the barbarian. Will not be using magic, because if he does, he'll have to one drop his sword, then take an attack of oppurtunity to cast the spell, which he has in limited supply. At this rate I don't see any of the spell casters doing a lot of damage. Looks like it will be up to the barbarian rogue. At this point I don't see him getting much from the magus class. Which was supposed to be his primary. At this point he is looking like a skirmisher that can augment his equipment a few times a day. I don't see him casting spells at all. It wouldn't be to his advantage to do it during combat, and his spell list is not suited for out of combat.

Insight · Sep 4, 2011

Sorry I missed this thread until tonight / this morning. My initial inclination is to try something with the Monk. Seems like something that would work pretty well on a ship with all the jumping around and so forth. Plus no armor to weigh me down if there are overboards situations and/or intentional swimming.

HolyMan · Sep 4, 2011

rangerjohn said:
I wanted him to do what it appeared the magus was designed to do. Be decent at melee and spell casting. At this point he is neither. He has a decent ac not great but decent. Will be doing about the damage of the bard, probably less than the barbarian. Will not be using magic, because if he does, he'll have to one drop his sword, then take an attack of oppurtunity to cast the spell, which he has in limited supply. At this rate I don't see any of the spell casters doing a lot of damage. Looks like it will be up to the barbarian rogue. At this point I don't see him getting much from the magus class. Which was supposed to be his primary. At this point he is looking like a skirmisher that can augment his equipment a few times a day. I don't see him casting spells at all. It wouldn't be to his advantage to do it during combat, and his spell list is not suited for out of combat.

I think Magnus was designed to be a wizard who doesn't crumble when he gets stuck in melee. He gets a better AC that doesn't go away, as with shield and mage armor, and has a little bit more HP.

The class is an enigma as it isn't as good in combat as a fighter, and not as good at casting as a wizard. To play it you must want to do each equally. But the fact that you can step in wherever makes you everyone's friend LOL.

Being able to augment the class with another through the gestalt rules gives you a little more combat prowess than a standard Magnus and you should think to go that route.

Perhaps Fighter is a better fit and the extra feats and HP would add to what you wish to do. With a high INT you could go with Combat Expertise and a high DEX go Weapon Finesse instead of a STR based warrior.

Will not be using magic, because if he does, he'll have to one drop his sword, then take an attack of opportunity to cast the spell, which he has in limited supply.

I don't see the connection here. Your saying because the archtype carries a shield he would need to drop his sword to cast. So your two spells will be combat spells of course and you need to decide if they are attack or defense (or something in between like truestrike).

You start combat with no weapon in hand and move to attack, swift to enhance the shield, and cast whatever touch spell first.

Drawing the AoO as you cast may be alright your AC is high enough that your looking at miss ,more than not.

So you are now toe to toe, one spell down (the other is on hold for another encounter), you draw your sword and act the warrior the rest of combat. Not only the barbarian can fight especially if your second class is martial.

But forgo the shield a moment. Say your Ranger (natural weapon), then the above is all the same except for you needed to cast shield before you go to enter combat. Or you move up cast and attack at the same time (Spell Combat) but you are now in combat still one spell down and AC is 2-3 points lower.

Magnus is the main I agree - but this class as I said before is designed to be a magic augmented fighter hacking it out in melee. Spell Combat, Spellstrike, ability to wear armor, etc.

All say melee to me, and that isn't typical for the "mage" of the party so it adds to the fun.

HM

HolyMan · Sep 4, 2011

Insight said:
Sorry I missed this thread until tonight / this morning. My initial inclination is to try something with the Monk. Seems like something that would work pretty well on a ship with all the jumping around and so forth. Plus no armor to weigh me down if there are overboards situations and/or intentional swimming.

NP Insight - welcome. Your reasoning sounds good - I don't know what the AP will entail but best to be prepared for anything.

HM