Evasion at lv2 for full BA classes

Belzbet · Sep 6, 2011

A PC of mine wants to swap out some abilites for the ranger so that she can get evasion at lv2, she wnats to swap out either favored enemy or caombat style or both if thats what I decided (alternatively she wants to create a class called solider that gets evasion at lv2 and other game mechanics). The reason for this is that she wants to dip into this class then dip into hexblade and get both evasion and mettle.

Should I let her? I mean giving up favored enemy and combat style for evasion makes the rangers class very unappealing. But if the PC is doing it only for the dip then it becomes alot better (since one favored enemy and one feat can become negligble but evasion is never useless unless the PC has poor relfez but this wont be so..) I should note that she wants a class with full BA... I have told her that both rogue and monk get evasion at lv2...

Dandu · Sep 6, 2011

I want to say just give her a Warblade with Action Before Thought. I really do. Too bad that's not an option at level 2.

Empirate · Sep 6, 2011

First off, I believe Evasion isn't worth much more than a feat or two. So swapping out a Ranger's Track feat and Combat Style for Evasion sounds like it's OK to me. Swapping out a Favored Enemy instead of Track would also be OK. Not unbalanced, as far as I'm concerned.

However, she could just go with two levels of Barbarian or Warblade (or whatever full-BAB class she likes), and buy a Ring of Evasion later on. It's not that expensive once you're 10th level or so. On the other hand, Evasion isn't that useful anymore at those levels, since every round the enemy Wizard is casting Fireball he's effectively setting his standard action on fire, as well...

Ahnehnois · Sep 6, 2011

If you were offering evasion at 2nd level to a full BAB class, I would say it's only a problem in terms of dip potential. If the character's going straight-classed, it's not a big deal. I would lose favored enemy and combat style and throw in some higher-level abilities to compensate (improved evasion for one, also some minor offensive abilities; you might also consider the spell-less ranger based on the player's stated intent).

Realistically, how many ref saves for half damage does a 2nd level character face? Most of the relevant spells are several levels away, and outside of that, breath weapons are the main threat. There aren't a ton of creatures you would face at 2nd level that would force a ref save for half damage.

Even if it does happen, the character probably will fail a fair portion of the time by virtue of not having many magic items, and will have no real hit points if this happens. So I don't see a real balance issue here.

StreamOfTheSky · Sep 6, 2011

Martial Rogue and Monk both give Evasion at 2nd level along with 2 (technically more in the case of monk) bonus feats and other stuff. Would it really kill her to lose 1 point of BAB? Unless it's severely throwing off some sort of plans to enter a prestige class or putting off a crucial feat for 3 more levels (since you only get one per 3 levels...), I don't see why it's so awful.

If so...pick Warblade or Barbarian, straight out swap Uncanny Dodge for Evasion, and it's probably fine.

Belzbet · Sep 6, 2011

thank for all your replies!! With your guys input I will just let her take Ranger and swap out both favored enemy and combat style (because she is dipping into it just for evasion).

Plane Sailing · Sep 8, 2011

I think you are being somewhat over-generous. While I'm prepared to go quite a long way in modifying class configurations to allow someone to play a specific concept based on a particular class, I would draw the line at someone saying "Hey, could you modify that class so I can dip in to it for two levels and get an essentially free ability which I otherwise fancy".

The player doesn't like the fact that evasion is available at early levels to non-full BAB classes and wants to finagle a way of getting the ability. Bad show, IMO.

Naturally you know the player involved, and I can understand why you might want to accomodate them, but... I can't help giving you my opinion here.

Good gaming anyway!

Cheers

Empirate · Sep 8, 2011

That would have been my sentiment, too, however I don't think Evasion is all that worthwhile. I'd draw the line at class abilities like Wildshape, Familiar, Hide in Plain Sight etc., but Evasion isn't that big of a deal IMO.

StreamOfTheSky · Sep 9, 2011

Empirate said:
That would have been my sentiment, too, however I don't think Evasion is all that worthwhile. I'd draw the line at class abilities like Wildshape, Familiar, Hide in Plain Sight etc., but Evasion isn't that big of a deal IMO.

"Familiar" is merely a feat away if you have any arcane CL at all (Obtain Familiar).

Jack Simth · Sep 9, 2011

Empirate said:
On the other hand, Evasion isn't that useful anymore at those levels, since every round the enemy Wizard is casting Fireball he's effectively setting his standard action on fire, as well...

That depends on a few things - how much metamagic that wizard can stack on that Fireball, for one; how many (and which) immunities the target has, for another.