I don't get the dislike of healing surges

I remember the days when D&D seemed to lag behind the cutting edge of RPG design--this seemed to start in the late 80s and early 90s when Ars Magica and the White Wolf games came out, and then, with the "Indie Boom" of the 90s, it became even more accentuated. 3E seemed to (at least partially) fix this, with a core engine that made sense, was somewhat modular and relatively streamlined.

In the 70s and 80s, D&D was kind of a big happy mess, like a sandbox that you could do what you wanted with; if you wanted to change something, you just did. Every campaign had house rules. In the 90s this was still true to some extent, but with the growing number of cutting edge indie games, the idiosyncrasies and awkwardness of D&D as a rules system began to glare a bit. Saving Throws vs. Petrification and Polymorph? "THAC0"? Really?! In many ways 3E was a saving grace; not only did it revive D&D as a community and game, but it vastly improved the rules system itself.

One of the most commonly discussed D&D rules (if I remember correctly) was Hit Points (and its related partner in crime, Armor Class). Even though HP was always meant to be an abstract gestalt of different factors--body, vitality, endurance, even luck, etc--it never seemed to make sense that an Ancient Red Dragon had less HP than a 10th level fighter. This problem wasn't really solved with 2E or even 3E. The numbers just got bigger all around.

Which brings us to 4E and healing surges. If HP truly is meant to represent a combination of factors, and not just physical damage capacity, then it would make sense that there would be easy and self-applied ways to regain a bulk of HP through rest, recovery, or something akin to adrenaline. It is my opinion that healing surges are essentially the "missing link" to HP, that HP don't really make sense without them, unless you want to go the route of the first WotC version of Star Wars and split HP into Wounds and Vitality.

I am continually surprised when I encounter the dislike of healing surges, seemingly because they aren't realistic, they turn D&D characters into video game superheroes. Now there are many things I don't like about 4E, and overall I would prefer a slightly more toned-down character development, somewhere between the weakling 1E 1st level characters and the already-heroic 4E 1st level characters (which are more like 5th level characters in 1E, imo). 4E has lots of problems that I hope will be addressed in 5E, but healing surges are not one of them.

I'm not attached to healing surges themselves, but to some mechanism that allows a character to "heal" themselves, to regain HP quickly. At least as long as HP remain HP--that is, a gestalt of different factors, an abstraction. If 5E wants to go another route entirely, say turn HP into body points only and instead increase defenses and damage resistance, sure, I'm fine with that. Actually, it makes more sense, really. But if we want to keep HP around essentially unchanged, than something akin to healing surges needs to exist, something that can be not only self-administered but self-generated. In other words, ubiquitous healing potions is not the answer and would create a similar problem to the necessity of magic item bonuses and an equally awkward patch (ala inherent bonuses).

If you dislike healing surges, why? And what would your solution be?

I personally like healing surges and the way that they work. They allow for a party to have different characters in the group and not need to have a cleric in the group to get some kind of relief, especially during a long hard fought battle. I like the way that characters can use them only once per encounter, unless a power grants them the use of another one or two, as well as not having to provide a ton of healing potions/scrolls/wands to PCs as a DM. I also don't mind that characters can use as many as they like out of combat, because that just speeds up the game and lowers the downtime of characters seeking out a healer, scrolls, or potions and allows them to continue on with their adventure.

I've played Savage Worlds with the wounds system before which doesn't have any hit points at all, but since I prefer the D&D version with HP, I didn't really care for the wounds way of doing things, but it just comes down to my personal preference.

I like the idea of a character catching his second wind and surging back to the fight in dramatic circumstances. There's plenty of it in action movies - particularly ones like Rocky and Die Hard. That's why I was on board with the implementation of second wind in Star Wars Saga Edition. There, it's usable when you're below half hit points and you can do it once per day. Characters can invest feats or talents in increasing the number of times it can be used, but it still pretty much tops out at 3 times a day.

Healing surges, as I see them, take a potential good mechanic and push it out of its ideal zone. There are too many negatives, I think, with healing surges to make it an attractive primary healing method for me.

I think the thing to remember is that the primary resource isn't hit points any more - it's healing surges. A party low on hit points isn't worried; a party low on healing surges is.

Hit points are now - kinda - "fractions" of Big Hit Points (which are your surges).

I've talked to several people about 4e. One of the biggest things (even today) that I see from people who don't like this system is that the ruleset seems too much like a video game. I personally think that subject has been beat to death, but that's what I still hear. They believe that healing surges aren't realistic enough (as if HP were at all realistic, but I digress) and they are akin to "Health Packs" in FPS's. Essentially, it bolsters their belief that 4e is more like a video game than an RPG.

I'll be honest, when I first heard about healing surges, I was skeptical. I didn't like the idea, but then again, I had the same complaint as above. Once I saw them in action, and realized what they actually represented, I came to realize the brilliance in the mechanic. And the more I play, the more I come to love the system. It's an almost completely organic way of keeping track of a groups endurance, without the encumberance of a dedicated healer.

If we want to talk realism, by the way, think about this. Most squads in the military have a medic in them. But the medic's job isn't to patch someone up immediately, to get them back in the fight withing seconds/minutes. It's to stabilize them so that a doctor can patch them up, and maybe, in a few weeks/months/etc, they can be ready to fight again. Essentially, in a modern (you can actually apply this same thinking to practically any warfare in history) firefight, it's the will/endurance/vitality/body armor/resolve/morale/etc of the individual in the fight that keeps them alive and moving, NOT the medic. Healing surges make far more sense in this respect than a cleric. However, opponents of healing surges will try to argue that HS don't make sense. The problem is, they only don't make sense when compared to previous editions of D&D.

billd91 said:

Healing surges, as I see them, take a potential good mechanic and push it out of its ideal zone. There are too many negatives, I think, with healing surges to make it an attractive primary healing method for me.

Click to expand...

If you don't mind my asking, why do you believe this? I'm not saying you're wrong, or whatever, I'm just very curious why you feel this way. I may have missed something in my evaluation of the system. You can see my previous post to see my thoughts on it.

Healing surges are the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle of character health once a character takes damage. The narrative can only be presented in hindsight once the outcome has been determined.

The PC doesn't blow healing surge? His wounds are life-threatening and he is seriously courting death every round. That last blow drew a mortal wound...

The PC blows a surge? 'Tis only a flesh wound! There was never any REAL damage! The last blow barely scraped the hero...

A game with them reminds me of the movie the Last Action Hero -- if the hero is alive, it's only a flesh wound.

Healing surges display a glaring inconsistency at zero hit points. When your hit points go below zero, which happens a lot in 4E, you're unconscious and bleeding out. You'll die if someone doesn't rush in to stabilize you, the way Gaerek is talking about in his real-world example above. Okay. That's all well and good. But once you're stabilized and combat ends, you spend a few healing surges and you're back on your feet like nothing happened. WTF? You were mortally wounded five minutes ago. This is what makes healing surges feel "video-gamey" to people.

(Also, the name is stupid. They're obviously not healing you, so why are they called "healing surges?")

Edited to add: Originally I broke both of the above out as separate points, with the name being #1 and the inconsistency being #2. Since the inconsistency is the important thing here, with the name being a minor annoyance, I decided to rewrite the post and focus on the inconsistency, lest we get bogged down in a long argument over the name.

If you dislike healing surges, why? And what would your solution be?

Click to expand...

I hate 'em- they remind me of arcade fighters & FPS computer games.

A single Second Wind per encounter is OK, but I much preferred D&D's healing magic from prior editions. A magic spell or potion of healing should not have it's potency affected by whether or not the target has HSs.

Mercurius said:

I'm not attached to healing surges themselves, but to some mechanism that allows a character to "heal" themselves, to regain HP quickly. At least as long as HP remain HP--that is, a gestalt of different factors, an abstraction.

Click to expand...

Deep down, I don't accept any model of HPs that doesn't treat each HP lost as some sort of physical wound. At higher levels, each HP is a pretty minor wound, approaching the minor scrapes and bruises level, but they're physical damage, and they take time to heal.