Super solo rules, considered

Fieari · Oct 16, 2011

So, Krusty previewed his supersolo rules, basically building off of Lolth from MM3. As cool as Lolth is, I'm not sure it's appropriate for every being. Furthermore, I like Krust's idea of using the Minion/Normal/Elite/Solo/Supersolo rules to move creatures up and down levels, enabling players to fight them earlier or later than their normal level would suggest.

So, while Krust would prefer Supersolos be exclusively for gods, I'm just starting to DM a new campaign at level 1, and am despairing to ever see Ascension for 4e. I'd like to apply these rules to a lvl 15 normal like a Winter Nymph and turn it into a lvl 1 supersolo.

With that said, my idea is the following:

1) Supersolos are primarily solos, but MUST include triggered actions, immediate actions, and other such ways of acting off its normal turn; in addition to the normal multi-targeting / AOE attacks solos always get. Solos sometimes get these anyway, but supersolos MUST have them.

2) Supersolos must have an escape move, much like deities, except not necessarily magical in nature. This escape move can be countered in different manners depending on the tier:

Heroic: Physically blocking exits. Surrounding the area (in a circle) with physical NPC allies.
Paragon: Magically blocking exits. Surrounding the area (in a sphere) with supernatural NPC allies.
Epic: Obtaining, via quest, an artifact that binds the target. Hunting the being down to their lair.

3) The critical defining feature: Supersolos cannot be damaged at all until a skill challenge has been passed. Once the skill challenge has been passed, the supersolo can only be damaged up to just above bloodied level until a second skill challenge is passed. Once that is passed, the supersolo may activate its escape ability unless prevented (cornered) in some way. If escape is preventing, the supersolo still may not be killed until a THIRD skill challenge is passed.

The skill challenge will be of Stalker 0's Obsidian Skill challenge type, seen here (see "Combat Skill Challenges" section)

4) Supersolos can spend an action point once per segment. Once before receiving any damage, once before bloodying, and once after bloodying.

In a bit, I'll start working on an example using this method. Stay tuned...

Fieari · Oct 16, 2011

As mentioned, here's a Level 1 Supersolo Winter Nymph.

Winter Nymph Lvl 1 Supersolo Artillary
Medium fey humanoid Exp 600?
HP 116; Bloodied 58; Initiative +4
AC 15; Perception +4; Low Light Vision
Fortitude 16; Reflex 18; Will 15
Speed 7 (Forest Walk), Fly 10

Traits

Blizzard Gale * Aura 5
Players cannot enter the aura radius, ranged attacks targeting anything within or past the aura auto miss, area attacks are deflected outside the aura. Blizzard Gale is ignored once the party has passed an Obsidian Skill Challenge (Mental).

Primary Skills (DC 17): Arcana, Nature. Standard Skills (DC 18): History, Insight, Perception, Religion.
When the Blizzard Gale is defeated, the Winter Nymph regains any spent action points.

Frost Armor
Any attack that would bloody the Winter Nymph instead brings her to her bloodied HP plus one (59 hp). Frost Armor is ignored once the party has passed an Obsidian Skill Challenge (Physical).

Primary Skills (DC 17): Athletics, Endurance. Standard Skills (DC 18): Acrobatics, Heal, Stealth, Thievery, Nature
When the Frost Armor is defeated, the Winter Nymph regains any spent action points.

Fragile Beauty * (Gaze) Immediate Interrupt * At Will
Any attack that would fatally injure the Winter Nymph is cancelled as if never attempted, but the attacker still loses their action. This effect is ignored once the party has passed an Obsidian Skill Challenge (Social).

Primary Skills (DC 17): Insight, Streetwise. Standard Skills (DC 18): Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Nature

Standard Actions

:bmelee:

Frozen Knife (weapon) * At Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +6 vs AC
Hit: 1d10+4 damage, target is slowed (save ends) and the nymph shifts 1 square.

:branged:

Winter Wind (cold, weapon) * At Will
Attack: Area burst 1 within 20 (enemies in burst); +8 vs Fort
Hit: 1d10+2 damage, targets are slowed (save ends) and slide 1 square.
Miss: Targets slide 1 square.

:close:

Nettling Wind (cold) * Recharge :4:

Attack: Close blast 5 (enemies in burst); +6 vs Fort
Hit: 1d10+3 damage, targets are immobilized (save ends).

:area:

Hail of Arrows (weapon) * Recharge :6:

Attack: Area burst 5 within 20 (enemies in burst); +8 vs AC
Hit: 2d10+3 damage, and ongoing 5 damage (save ends).

Minor Actions

:close:

Wind Gust * At Will
Attack: Close Blast 3; +6 vs Fort
Hit: Target is pushed 3 squares

:ranged:

Icy Glare (Gaze) * At Will
Attack: Ranged 10; +6 vs Will
Hit: Target is Dazed (save ends)

Triggered Actions

Frost Touch * At Will
Trigger: An enemy hits the Nymph in melee
Effect (Immediate Reaction): The triggering enemy takes 1d4 cold damage, and the Winter Nymph shifts 1 square.

Sudden Blow * At Will
Trigger: An enemy granting combat advantage attacks the Nymph
Effect: The Nymph makes any standard or minor action attack against the triggering enemy.

Wind Escape * Encounter
Trigger: The Nymph is bloodied
Effect: The Nymph attacks with Winter Wind (centered on herself), immediately gains a move action, and may spend up to two action points on additional actions. For each action point spent on this turn, the Winter Nymph may move AND attack with Winter Wind (centered on herself only).

Action points: 2
Str: 16 (+3) Dex: 19 (+4) Wis: 18 (+4)
Con: 13 (+1) Int: 13 (+1) Cha: 12 (+1)

Upper_Krust · Oct 17, 2011

Hey Fieari mate!

Fieari said:
So, Krusty previewed his supersolo rules, basically building off of Lolth from MM3. As cool as Lolth is, I'm not sure it's appropriate for every being.

Well there are a few more details than that, but Lolth is similar in the mechanic of using two different stat-blocks, albeit they halve the hit points between the two forms whereas I don't.

Furthermore, I like Krust's idea of using the Minion/Normal/Elite/Solo/Supersolo rules to move creatures up and down levels, enabling players to fight them earlier or later than their normal level would suggest.

So, while Krust would prefer Supersolos be exclusively for gods,

The main reason for Supersolos as primarily epic opponents is because at that level solo monsters just aren't enough of a challenge on their own.

- Heroic Tier, Solo monsters = Tough Challenge (generally use lower level than party)
- Paragon Tier, Solo Monsters = Typical Challenge
- Epic Tier, Solo Monsters = Easy Challenge (always use higher level than the party)

I think with Supersolos you can once again use them as typical challenges for the epic tier (ie. in and around the players level).

I'm just starting to DM a new campaign at level 1,

You'll like the Vampire Bestiary then...hopefully I can get it done for the 28th of October. *crosses fingers*

and am despairing to ever see Ascension for 4e.

I know, sorry dude, I'm just a complete muck-up (or something that sounds similar). :blush:

I'd like to apply these rules to a lvl 15 normal like a Winter Nymph and turn it into a lvl 1 supersolo.

Interesting idea, although I would personally be very careful about using even Solo monsters lower than level 3-4. I have a Dire Crocodile (one of the Cannibal 'gods') in the Vampire Bestiary thats Solo level 4 and it is a really tough encounter. I think I initially had him at Level 3 and on paper it just looked a tpk.

With that said, my idea is the following:

1) Supersolos are primarily solos, but MUST include triggered actions, immediate actions, and other such ways of acting off its normal turn; in addition to the normal multi-targeting / AOE attacks solos always get. Solos sometimes get these anyway, but supersolos MUST have them.

I suggest using my Boss Monster rules (I think they are mentioned at the top of the Idol of Kali stat-blocks).

2) Supersolos must have an escape move, much like deities, except not necessarily magical in nature. This escape move can be countered in different manners depending on the tier:

Heroic: Physically blocking exits. Surrounding the area (in a circle) with physical NPC allies.
Paragon: Magically blocking exits. Surrounding the area (in a sphere) with supernatural NPC allies.
Epic: Obtaining, via quest, an artifact that binds the target. Hunting the being down to their lair.

The 'escape' move could be automatically built into the 'story' of the encounter. For instance once you bloody the monster (or its first stat-block) something is triggered (the castle starts to collapse, etc.) that changes the dynamic/pacing.

3) The critical defining feature: Supersolos cannot be damaged at all until a skill challenge has been passed. Once the skill challenge has been passed, the supersolo can only be damaged up to just above bloodied level until a second skill challenge is passed. Once that is passed, the supersolo may activate its escape ability unless prevented (cornered) in some way. If escape is preventing, the supersolo still may not be killed until a THIRD skill challenge is passed.

This wouldn't necessarily need to be at the start of the fight. It could take place mid-way through.

The skill challenge will be of Stalker 0's Obsidian Skill challenge type, seen here (see "Combat Skill Challenges" section)

Okay.

4) Supersolos can spend an action point once per segment. Once before receiving any damage, once before bloodying, and once after bloodying.

Be careful giving them too many attacks, or specifically too many attacks against a single target.

In a bit, I'll start working on an example using this method. Stay tuned...

EXP would be the same as a Level 15 creature.

I'd be interested to hear how it operates against the party. I really would be shy about using solo monsters against low Heroic tier PCs.

Fieari · Oct 18, 2011

Krusty said:
The main reason for Supersolos as primarily epic opponents is because at that level solo monsters just aren't enough of a challenge on their own.

- Heroic Tier, Solo monsters = Tough Challenge (generally use lower level than party)
- Paragon Tier, Solo Monsters = Typical Challenge
- Epic Tier, Solo Monsters = Easy Challenge (always use higher level than the party)

I think with Supersolos you can once again use them as typical challenges for the epic tier (ie. in and around the players level).

Hrm. Interesting. I'm new (but eager, it's already been 5000x easier to prepare sessions) to DMing 4e, so I don't know if this is true or not, but I remember those threads with people posting how to demolish Orcus without breaking a sweat, so you may be right.

On the bright-side, it does mean that I won't feel guilty allowing the group to level up to lvl2 or 3 before bringing her out.

Krusty said:
You'll like the Vampire Bestiary then...hopefully I can get it done for the 28th of October. *crosses fingers*

...

I know, sorry dude, I'm just a complete muck-up (or something that sounds similar).

Admit it Krusty, you just don't like my money, that's all.

Krusty said:
Interesting idea, although I would personally be very careful about using even Solo monsters lower than level 3-4. I have a Dire Crocodile (one of the Cannibal 'gods') in the Vampire Bestiary thats Solo level 4 and it is a really tough encounter. I think I initially had him at Level 3 and on paper it just looked a tpk.

Hrm. Again, it might be my lack of experience, but it LOOKS to me that PCs should be able to handle it, by the math. We'll see though... especially if I let the PCs level up once or twice first.

Krusty said:
I suggest using my Boss Monster rules (I think they are mentioned at the top of the Idol of Kali stat-blocks).

Hrm. Iiinteresting. The DMG1 does suggest giving multiple rounds of actions to solos as a possibility, but I haven't seen ANY examples of said monsters in any book, so I discounted it as lazy design. It does make design easy (less powers you have to make and keep track of)... I don't think I'll use it when I send the Nymph at my players, but I'll certainly keep it in mind for the future. I forsee myself designing Supersolos with some regularity.

Krusty said:
Be careful giving them too many attacks, or specifically too many attacks against a single target.

Ah, now THAT'S good advice, now that I think about it. Perhaps a note that the action points can only be spent to diversify attacks, not concentrate them? Darn, how would you even WORD that? Since I'll be DMing, it won't be a problem now that you've pointed it out to me, but it would be nice to formalize it...

Krusty said:
This wouldn't necessarily need to be at the start of the fight. It could take place mid-way through.

Err... didn't I write that? Skill challenge at the start, in the middle, and at the end. I suppose any of the three could be removed to tweak the challenge-- so perhaps there's no initial defense, but there is one that prevents bloodying. Or perhaps you just can't finish it off until the challenge is passed.

But I kinda like the idea that there are multiple KINDS of challenges that must be faced in the middle of the fight.

Krusty said:
EXP would be the same as a Level 15 creature.

Wait, really? Uh, let me see... according to the DMG chart... hrm, yes, a lvl5 standard gives the same as lvl1 elite, so that matches. And a lvl10 standard gives the same as a lvl1 solo. My goodness... I wouldn't have thought it. I guess 1,200xp IS the proper value. My goodness.

And here I was debating 800xp and thinking it too high...

Krusty said:
I'd be interested to hear how it operates against the party. I really would be shy about using solo monsters against low Heroic tier PCs.

The Winter Nymph above probably won't appear for AT LEAST another three weeks. The game just got started, but will be heavily fae-based, with dragons as the initial plot hook. In fact, next session they'll be facing an adult or older red dragon exclusively in the form of a skill challenge (dodging out of the way while the dragon is attacking something else). That's kinda what gave me the idea for this-- that and considering how one might fight a monster the size of a castle. Skill checks added to combat just seems like it should work.

I will tell you how the adult red as skill challenge thing goes. They'll be on river barges, supposedly prepared for dragon attack via escort boat manned with ballistae. The red will be focused on sinking the ships and taking out the escorts, while two wyrmlings attempt to steal anything edible or shiny. I expect the situation to end in the boats sinking and the players running for their lives, but hope it'll be fair enough that they CAN drive off the dragons.

Edit: Just so you know, I crossposted this to the 4e House Rule board to see what non-IH players thought. The few who responded seem skeptical to the very idea of anything more powerful than a solo for a given level.

Upper_Krust · Oct 20, 2011

Hey Fieari mate!

Fieari said:
Hrm. Interesting. I'm new (but eager, it's already been 5000x easier to prepare sessions) to DMing 4e,

Thats 4E for you.

so I don't know if this is true or not, but I remember those threads with people posting how to demolish Orcus without breaking a sweat, so you may be right.

It really gets much easier because there is so much synergy advantages at epic level.

On the bright-side, it does mean that I won't feel guilty allowing the group to level up to lvl2 or 3 before bringing her out.

I think thats a safer proposition...if even that.

Admit it Krusty, you just don't like my money, that's all.

Thats it exactly, I much prefer to spend relatively large amounts of my own money commissioning art for vapourware.

Hrm. Again, it might be my lack of experience, but it LOOKS to me that PCs should be able to handle it, by the math. We'll see though... especially if I let the PCs level up once or twice first.

We'll know in a few weeks I suspect.

Hrm. Iiinteresting. The DMG1 does suggest giving multiple rounds of actions to solos as a possibility, but I haven't seen ANY examples of said monsters in any book, so I discounted it as lazy design. It does make design easy (less powers you have to make and keep track of)... I don't think I'll use it when I send the Nymph at my players, but I'll certainly keep it in mind for the future. I forsee myself designing Supersolos with some regularity.

I use the example for my Idol of Kali, but I am not sure its something you want to use at low heroic levels.

Ah, now THAT'S good advice, now that I think about it. Perhaps a note that the action points can only be spent to diversify attacks, not concentrate them? Darn, how would you even WORD that? Since I'll be DMing, it won't be a problem now that you've pointed it out to me, but it would be nice to formalize it...

I'd just nerf the action point idea altogether. I like to give my solo's a Standard, Move, Minor and Triggered Action, plus potentially an Aura.

Move Actions should be 75% of a standard
Minor Actions should deal 50% damage of a standard
Triggered Actions probably depend on the selectiveness of the trigger

Err... didn't I write that? Skill challenge at the start, in the middle, and at the end. I suppose any of the three could be removed to tweak the challenge-- so perhaps there's no initial defense, but there is one that prevents bloodying. Or perhaps you just can't finish it off until the challenge is passed.

But I kinda like the idea that there are multiple KINDS of challenges that must be faced in the middle of the fight.

Its interesting trying to come up with the 'non-combat phase' of fights. Most of the unique ones are generally location specific.

Wait, really? Uh, let me see... according to the DMG chart... hrm, yes, a lvl5 standard gives the same as lvl1 elite, so that matches. And a lvl10 standard gives the same as a lvl1 solo. My goodness... I wouldn't have thought it. I guess 1,200xp IS the proper value. My goodness.

And here I was debating 800xp and thinking it too high...

With supersolos, you want them really powerful but laterally rather than focused. The problem with solos is making them a challenge without necessarily able to kill a PC each round or two.

The Winter Nymph above probably won't appear for AT LEAST another three weeks. The game just got started, but will be heavily fae-based, with dragons as the initial plot hook. In fact, next session they'll be facing an adult or older red dragon exclusively in the form of a skill challenge (dodging out of the way while the dragon is attacking something else). That's kinda what gave me the idea for this-- that and considering how one might fight a monster the size of a castle. Skill checks added to combat just seems like it should work.

Kewl, I think WotC are releasing a new Feybook soon.

I will tell you how the adult red as skill challenge thing goes. They'll be on river barges, supposedly prepared for dragon attack via escort boat manned with ballistae. The red will be focused on sinking the ships and taking out the escorts, while two wyrmlings attempt to steal anything edible or shiny. I expect the situation to end in the boats sinking and the players running for their lives, but hope it'll be fair enough that they CAN drive off the dragons.

I'm tweaking some rowboat rules for my dire croc fight in the VB.

Edit: Just so you know, I crossposted this to the 4e House Rule board to see what non-IH players thought. The few who responded seem skeptical to the very idea of anything more powerful than a solo for a given level.

Already read the posts, I'll try and swing by over the next 24 hours and comment.

Fieari · Dec 6, 2011

So, a few weeks have past, the group has leveled up to level 3, and they're facing this girl now. They're barely through the start of the encounter (just broke through the first whirlwind defence and are about to start the damage) but I have some play notes.

The encounter is set that we have the Winter Nymph and her pet little girl, who is coloring. Minion stick figure representations of each PC exit the child's square every turn and attempt to merge with the PCs (provoking opportunity attacks) and if successful, cause more drawings (non-minion) to come out and attack them. It takes place in a throne-room of ice, glamoured to look like a throne room of gold, with plenty of pillars for cover. The players are armed with cold iron, and defenses that protect them versus glamour, but render the drawings invisible to them (but still dangerous).

In the previous session, an NPC forwarned them about the Nymph's defences, explaining how to overcome them. Of course, when this session came about, they all forgot about it (or dismissed it?) and tried the head on battle approach instead. After a round of them trying and failing to just attack, I let them roll insight checks to remember what they were told ("USE SKILLS!")

It turned out pretty frantic and lots of fun. At first they tried running down the center aisle of the throne room to get to her, only to be blown back by Winter Wind (I actually buffed that attack to push 3 instead of 1-- there was plenty of arena space and I wanted to make use of it). That caused them to wise up and start using the pillars for cover.

Then the stick-figure versions of themselves came out, and one of them got through to a player who couldn't see it, summoning crayon dogs (lvl2 std skirmishers).

It was about this point that they finally got the message to start using skills, but they still had to worry about finding cover and dealing with the dogs / stick figures. And then I threw a monkey wrench in, by having the Nymph move. So far, she'd been standing in front of her throne.

10 square diameter auras cover a LOT of ground. It was glorious. I had it deal 1d6 damage to anyone in the area with a skill check to avoid the damage. It didn't do a lot of damage, but it psychologically terrified the players. They then decided to ignore the dogs and just go for taking Blizzard Gale down, which they succeeded in the next two rounds.

At that point, the FLGS had to close (we're playing at the store) so we'll continue next session. I plan to have them get her down to bloodied, and then she'll run away, causing a chase sequence which will explain the physicial challenge instead of just calling it armor they're breaking through.

So far though, everyone has loved it. She doesn't deal so much damage that the cleric couldn't fix them up, but she's provided a real challenge.

Upper_Krust · Dec 6, 2011

Hey Fieari mate!

It all sounds very imaginative, if a tad confusing the way you spelt it out. For instance is the little girl invisible or simply being protected by the Nymph? :-S

I just envision the 2D figures 'sliding' along the ground (or walls) to reach the PCs.

Fieari · Dec 6, 2011

The little girl was protected. For that session she was within the blizzard gale aura but untouched by it. And yes, 2D figures seeking after the PCs is pretty much how it went. Then the crayon drawings were able to come out.

Next session, she won't have the wind protection, but I have plans for that...

I think the real key element to this is that the players need to have something that their combat actions ARE useful towards at the same time that they are spending skill actions. Otherwise the three layers of armor can be more or less ignored, and effectively equal bonus rounds of actions for the supersolo-- which isn't as interesting as I'd hoped.

So yet again, something labeled "solo" really really needs other targets on the board, unless there's some way of providing additional targets from the core supersolo itself. I can think of ways of doing that with my version of Alabaster, for instance... perhaps it's time to bring him down a couple levels and give him supersolo capability.

Back to the nymph though, I think that having different abilities for each of the phases will be very helpful-- which brings us back to your pseudo-lolth idea again (just with fewer technical hitpoints and requiring skillchecks to transition phases, which I still love and am definitely keeping). For the session we just had, for instance, the only things that the nymph did were move (bringing the devestatingly scary blizzard gale aura with her) and fire off "Winter Wind" that did a little bit of damage and moved those she could see (again, I buffed it to push 3 squares).

For the next session, I'm planning on dropping Winter Wind, changing Wind Gust (which I never used, given that the players never got close enough) to an immediate interrupt ability targeting anyone moving towards the child, and then having her start using Nettling Wind as a minor (simulating the Blizzard Gale still being in effect, but weakened), with Hail of Arrows being her primary standard. To that end, the abilities will be modified to:

:close:

Nettling Wind (cold) * At-Will (Minor)
Attack: Close burst 5 (enemies in burst); +6 vs Fort
Hit: 1d10+3 damage, targets are slowed until end of their next turn
Miss: Targets are slowed until end of their next turn

:branged:

Hail of Arrows (Icicle Rain) (cold, weapon) * At-Will (Standard)
Attack: Area burst 1 (or 2?) within 20 (enemies in burst); +8 vs AC
Hit: 1d10+3 damage
Effect: Targeted area becomes difficult terrain

:ranged:

Wind Gust * At-Will (Immediate Interrupt)
Trigger: Creature comes within 2 squares of child
Attack: Ranged 20; +6 vs Reflex
Hit: Target pushed 4 squares.
Miss: Target is slowed until start of targets next turn.

So that'll cover her until the chase sequence. Damage is reduced to what I know the players can take (from experience), such that 2d10+6 is the max they'll take in a round, if hit by both Nettling Wind and Icicle Rain.

For the chase, I need her to summon creatures since the girl won't be able to anymore. Perhaps animated snowballs that slow the players down? Ice bats? Her fly speed will be set to equal what the players can move at if they run flat out, making endurance checks in the process (I'll have to check what that speed it). Then to gain on her, they'll do the physical skill challenge-- OR they'll face her summons, which won't do damage, but will REMOVE success checks from the party's score on a hit. And she'll fire off single icicles for pegging damage, to keep the tension up. 1d6 unmodified.

When they finally catch her, she'll shift from ranged oriented to Melee focused. Her aura equivelent will cease pushing people away, but start pulling them in to where she can reach them, and then she'll dart away, becoming a skirmisher.

:bmelee:

Frozen Knife (weapon, cold) * At-Will
Attack: Close Wall 5 (all enemies in wall); +8 vs AC
Hit: 1d10+4 damage, target is slowed (save ends) and the nymph slides up to 6

:close:

Calling Wind * At-Will (Minor)
Attack: Close Burst 5 (all enemies in burst); +6 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6+3 damage, Target pulled up to 3 squares

Finally, when they've got her on the ropes, and she's desperately begging for her life with Fragile Beauty, there'll be one last summoning sequence needed. I think I'll have living winds that block line-of-effect to her, push players away, do minor damage, and give skill penalties. She herself will only attack with will targeting abilities that will remove successes (flipping how the chase sequence worked).

And in the end, it'll be a boss fight they will never forget. Just so long as I don't do so much damage as to use ALL their healing surges, they should be able to survive it, but they'll feel like they are holding on by a thread every single round, which is my hope.

Any thoughts on these revisions?

Upper_Krust · Dec 8, 2011

Hello again amigo!

Fieari said:
The little girl was protected. For that session she was within the blizzard gale aura but untouched by it. And yes, 2D figures seeking after the PCs is pretty much how it went. Then the crayon drawings were able to come out.

Ah okay.

Next session, she won't have the wind protection, but I have plans for that...

I think the real key element to this is that the players need to have something that their combat actions ARE useful towards at the same time that they are spending skill actions. Otherwise the three layers of armor can be more or less ignored, and effectively equal bonus rounds of actions for the supersolo-- which isn't as interesting as I'd hoped.

I think the Sly Flourish approach (gleaned from the Epic Tier DMing Advice pdf) always works well of adding defenses that are empowered by magical objects on the map.

Not sure how that works the way the Frost Armour operates though.

I adopted something very similar with the Braziers and Pillars in my Orcus revision.

So yet again, something labeled "solo" really really needs other targets on the board, unless there's some way of providing additional targets from the core supersolo itself. I can think of ways of doing that with my version of Alabaster, for instance... perhaps it's time to bring him down a couple levels and give him supersolo capability.

I have been thinking about this problem and I believe that henceforth I'll be dropping deities down a further 5 levels (or the difference between Elite and Solo or Solo and Super-solo) when encountered outside their native realm.

So Orcus would be a better fit at Level 28 Solo, but on his native layer he would be Level 33 solo (or Level 28 Super-solo).

Back to the nymph though, I think that having different abilities for each of the phases will be very helpful-- which brings us back to your pseudo-lolth idea again (just with fewer technical hitpoints and requiring skillchecks to transition phases, which I still love and am definitely keeping).

Well as I noted previously, Super-solo's are primarily for the Epic Tier.

For the session we just had, for instance, the only things that the nymph did were move (bringing the devestatingly scary blizzard gale aura with her) and fire off "Winter Wind" that did a little bit of damage and moved those she could see (again, I buffed it to push 3 squares).

Okay.

For the next session, I'm planning on dropping Winter Wind, changing Wind Gust (which I never used, given that the players never got close enough) to an immediate interrupt ability targeting anyone moving towards the child, and then having her start using Nettling Wind as a minor (simulating the Blizzard Gale still being in effect, but weakened), with Hail of Arrows being her primary standard. To that end, the abilities will be modified to:

Nettling Wind (cold) * At-Will (Minor)
Attack: Close burst 5 (enemies in burst); +6 vs Fort
Hit: 1d10+3 damage, targets are slowed until end of their next turn
Miss: Targets are slowed until end of their next turn

Hail of Arrows (Icicle Rain) (cold, weapon) * At-Will (Standard)
Attack: Area burst 1 (or 2?) within 20 (enemies in burst); +8 vs AC
Hit: 1d10+3 damage
Effect: Targeted area becomes difficult terrain

Wind Gust * At-Will (Immediate Interrupt)
Trigger: Creature comes within 2 squares of child
Attack: Ranged 20; +6 vs Reflex
Hit: Target pushed 4 squares.
Miss: Target is slowed until start of targets next turn.

So that'll cover her until the chase sequence. Damage is reduced to what I know the players can take (from experience), such that 2d10+6 is the max they'll take in a round, if hit by both Nettling Wind and Icicle Rain.

For the chase, I need her to summon creatures since the girl won't be able to anymore. Perhaps animated snowballs that slow the players down? Ice bats? Her fly speed will be set to equal what the players can move at if they run flat out, making endurance checks in the process (I'll have to check what that speed it). Then to gain on her, they'll do the physical skill challenge-- OR they'll face her summons, which won't do damage, but will REMOVE success checks from the party's score on a hit. And she'll fire off single icicles for pegging damage, to keep the tension up. 1d6 unmodified.

When they finally catch her, she'll shift from ranged oriented to Melee focused. Her aura equivelent will cease pushing people away, but start pulling them in to where she can reach them, and then she'll dart away, becoming a skirmisher.

Frozen Knife (weapon, cold) * At-Will
Attack: Close Wall 5 (all enemies in wall); +8 vs AC
Hit: 1d10+4 damage, target is slowed (save ends) and the nymph slides up to 6

Calling Wind * At-Will (Minor)
Attack: Close Burst 5 (all enemies in burst); +6 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6+3 damage, Target pulled up to 3 squares

Finally, when they've got her on the ropes, and she's desperately begging for her life with Fragile Beauty, there'll be one last summoning sequence needed. I think I'll have living winds that block line-of-effect to her, push players away, do minor damage, and give skill penalties. She herself will only attack with will targeting abilities that will remove successes (flipping how the chase sequence worked).

And in the end, it'll be a boss fight they will never forget. Just so long as I don't do so much damage as to use ALL their healing surges, they should be able to survive it, but they'll feel like they are holding on by a thread every single round, which is my hope.

Any thoughts on these revisions?

A few.

Firstly I'm wondering if I would change the base damage to 1d8+4 with area effect attacks (or single target minor actions) at 1d6+3. Technically thats 0.5 damage down on the suggested figure but it is a Level 1 supersolo and while I would nearly always say round up in these cases, between Levels 1-4 I'd be wary of that.

Secondly, I have been looking over the original stat-block again and I am worried its a bit too 'busy' for a Level 1 monster. Of course that should be no problems for you using it, but I just wonder how others (especially beginner DMs) would look at it. Not a major complaint by any means since this is created for your campaign. But I always like to ponder 'how would I do it'.

Also as regards the chase sequence, perhaps a better idea might be to have success or failure lead to favourable terrain for the winner. Perhaps if the PCs don't catch her soon enough, she ends up in the cave with the Ice Bats (x8 Level 1 Minions)?

I'll maybe have more thoughts later on. Its an interesting case study.

Upper_Krust · Jan 1, 2012

Happy New Year everyone!

Just to let you know that I updated my website (finally) with a new monster, a Super-solo version of Kronos from the Wrath of the Titans movie.

Wrath of the Titans – Kronos Eternity Publishing

I posted it in this thread because its about super-solo monsters.

Hope you like it.

Super solo rules, considered

Fieari

Explorer

Fieari

Explorer

Upper_Krust

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Fieari

Explorer

Upper_Krust

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Fieari

Explorer

Upper_Krust

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Fieari

Explorer

Upper_Krust

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Upper_Krust

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