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Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 06:02 AM #101
Myrmidon (Lvl 10)
Another fundamentally incorrect statement. They're saying that this must conform to their personal beliefs.
I'm saying that no one has the right to make others - or the work of others - conform to their personal beliefs.
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Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 06:06 AM #102
Waghalter (Lvl 7)
I would also say that, whether you like it or not, the last decade has given many people legitimate reason to doubt the idea of the US as the good guy by default, and that to me represents the cautionary aspect of this game.
Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 06:29 AM #103
Scout (Lvl 6)
But I don't want to get too side-tracked. I don't feel that many people (potential customers) saying it's offensive and the makers changing the fictional background is the same as censorship. It's just common sense... if you offend and insult your customers, they won't buy your product.
Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 11:58 AM #104
The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)
[QUOTE=Samurai;5758107. And then we looked around to see who might attack us next, and saw that Saddam was flaunting UN resolutions, denying access to inspectors, trying to buy yellow cake uranium, shooting at our planes, and had a long history of supporting terrorists, so we decided to take him out and create a democratic state for the people of Iraq. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, but the trouble is that these kind of justifications can be applied to almost any* nation, hence the fear of US aggression. To be fair, plenty of anti-US people would paint the US as an aggressor whatever she did; the trouble with Iraq was that they suddenly had actual evidence to support their position.
*The one unusual/egregious thing Saddam actually did do, plot to assassinate HW Bush in the early '90s, was not cited as a reason for the invasion.
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Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 01:58 PM #105
The Great Druid (Lvl 17)
It's spurious to now ask for specific examples of people spouting this belief; everyone who objected to FFG's original flavor text does not post on EN World. That's also beside the point, since I'm speaking in generally of people who adopt the attitude of "change that which bothers me."Who is? Who are you arguing against? With respect to the posts I've seen on the subject, that's hyperbole.
Some people have that opinion about some things, and that's what I'm speaking to. Intolerance is bad; taking a stand against intolerance is not bad even if you call it intolerant to intolerance.
One doesn't need to make an explicit threat to say that they don't tolerate something's existence. Simply saying you don't recognize its right to exist carries a threatening element by itself, as its saying that you don't agree that it deserves to be.I have no problem with that statement. But I don't see anyone threatening to come to the FFG offices with a bat, or sue them or even organize a boycott.
You keep displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of my point. I'm not saying people can't be offended by things - they can. I'm saying people have no right to expect the things that they're offended by to change for the sake of assuaging their sense of outrage.I have problems with implications that saying something is offensive is tantamount to making others conform to their personal beliefs, and I don't see how, if those are equivalent, that you aren't trying to make people conform to your personal beliefs.
Be offended all you like. But that offense stops at the point where you expect things to change just to suit you; you don't have that right.
Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 04:16 PM #106
Lama (Lvl 13)
Hinamatsuri - festival of the dolls. Love Hina - famous hotspring/harem anime show.)
The new version of the game is, IMHO, pot-boiling: what was a fairly believable scenario in the 1980's is less so now, because of the imbalance of military might. Few nations have more than one aircraft carrier; China is still getting its first. The Exocet and Silkworm missiles are a threat to US naval power, and technology does change rapidly, but the heaviest military threats to the US right now are nukes and terrorism -- nukes because they're so formidable, and terrorism because it can get to places where troops in the open could not go.
Iraq had the fourth-largest army in the world around 1991; the US and her allies crushed that. IMHO (again), I think the science fiction of this game is its strong point: FFG needs to have quite a bit of science fiction in the game in order to make an even marginally-plausible game scenario. That stated game scenario doesn't make a lot of sense (again, "to me") without a healthy dollop of "pretend the situation is as wild and crazy as this."
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Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 04:27 PM #107
Scout (Lvl 6)
Their only option would be a massive barrage of nuclear weapons, and hope that it happens fast enough that only 1 or 2 countries are destroyed by the super-weapon in return, and that the nuclear retaliation from the US doesn't kill them in return or start a nuclear winter on Earth.
Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 05:43 PM #108
Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)
On reflection I dislike both the blurbs. The first sounds more exciting, but if the us had a super weapon that could obliterate countries, surely an "invasion America" scenario would be, uh, rather short?
The SPI Invasion America scenario at least had the virtue of tapping into the worries of those days (communist threat expanding, etc). Although I can envisage plenty of "bad America" scenarios, I find it hard to conceive of one which makes a large scale conventional invasion necessary or even possible!
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Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 06:04 PM #109
Waghalter (Lvl 7)
But again, my point is only that the game is using that set of conditions to set upnanscience fiction scenario that is US vs. the world that is compelling in a contemporary context.
Sunday, 25th December, 2011, 06:08 PM #110
Waghalter (Lvl 7)