Fortress America: When Gaming and Politics Collide

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
But by that logic, Escape from New York is plausible.

Perhaps I wasn't using the right word, but another isn't popping into my mind.

What I mean is that the real issue isn't about how plausible the scenario is, but in how people *feel* about that plausibility, and about what they think you're trying to say in pointing it out.

Escape from New York and Demolition Man (to have an example from the 1990s as well), were both logical extensions of things folks were thinking about at the times they were made. They were sort of reductio ad absurdum arguments against certain trends in society - you could see the logic, but they weren't too terribly realistic pictures of how things would really turn out. Distant enough to be safe, but plausible enough to engender thought.

But we just removed the last combat troops from Iraq within the past few days. We are not talking about something that's all that distant. I'd find it surprising indeed that anyone up enough on current events to write that copy wouldn't expect it to poke people in sore spots.
 

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Remus Lupin

Adventurer
Yeah, I'd say the first text sounds better, more engaging. The second text reads like they just got slammed and decided they had to write the most neutral prose they could in order to avoid further controversy. I would have sent it back to marketing and said, "You've now replaced inflammatory with boring. Fix it."
 

Squire James

First Post
It does touch a little bit of a nerve, because though I supported the effort I thought Iraq suffered from a lot of "mission creep" that didn't really have to be there. Of course, the news media was around to make every success look like it didn't matter (or wasn't a success at all), and every failure catastrophic... the word I hear from actual military people who were there is much different from what I hear from the media.

What I dispute is that the U.S. would do any such thing (whoever's in charge). It's like a company trip where all the software engineers ride a plane to their party site, and the pilot announces the plane is using software created by that company. Most of the passengers leave in a panic, except one guy sits calmly in his seat. The pilot chuckles and asks that last guy why he didn't leave with the others. He replies, "This plane isn't going to crash... in fact it isn't going anywhere!" I feel basically the same about the U.S.
 

GreyLord

Legend
I'll be honest, I didn't like the original blurb that FFG put out.

I disliked even more those who sought to try to say the US was doing exactly what the blurb stated and were also Americans (As far as I know, the US hasn't actually eradicated any nation entirely off the map, nor has it any plans to...UNLESS those same people claiming that America will do that and are Americans would ALLOW their own nation to do it...in which case...they should blame themselves).

What about the blurb that disturbed me was that this blurb went a complete 180 degrees from the original game Fortress America (and perhaps Invasion America).

America wasn't mindlessly lashing out, and it wasn't eradicating nations at will with it's defensive lasers.

It was instead wrapped around the idea as brought in by movies such as Red Dawn, that of a Democracy competing with the other super power at the time, that of Communisim (or in the above blurb...socialism).

So what happens when the world has turned to ideas different from the Democracy of the US, and invades the US...effectively turning the US into a fortress?

In the original new blurb it didn't seem so much as Fortress America...as Fortress World. If the US had that power to simply eradicate nations off the face of the earth...it shouldn't be nations attacking the US...it should be...the US get's a turn to eradicate some nation off the world map per turn...if that's what they are really fighting against. And yes, if the US had that type of offensive power to simply fire defense lasers and wipe a nation off the map...and other nations attacked it into what would appear to be a losing war...I would imagine they'd use it as the apocolypse scenario.

But this isn't a game about the US eradicating the world...at least the original wasn't...and the new game isn't. The original wasn't about the US trying to impose itself on the world, or the US trying to hunt down the communists. It was about the US defending itself on three fronts.

The original was more about the conflict of political ideology of Socialism/communism vs. that of a Democratic Republic...or any Democracy/republic.

I'd say terrorists are NOT a super power as akin to the USSR of the 80s. Maybe they could do something with the Chinese block of the East, with the Socialistic block composed of some of the ideas of South America...as per the game from the 80s. The problem is that there is no longer any real big Communist/Socialist scary guy to the East. I suppose they may take up that some of the more volatile nations in the Middle East and Africa get riled up with a socialistic complaint and unite to conquer the area and then challenge the US...but that's not what they apparantly did.

Instead of a challenge of political opposites in the same vein...it was more of putting it as if the US was destroying nations at will to hunt for terrorists...so in return the nations join the terrorists against the US????

First, last I checked the US was joined by many others in it's hunt for terrorists.

Second, most nations have problems with those terrorists and in many ways joined the US in joint operations.

Third, if the US did something that extreme to wipe others out without limit, other nations would first unite in the Middle East to take out Israel (fortress Israel?), perhaps some would wipe out the Kurds, and then others would wipe out a few of the nations in Europe...without US help.

It just doesn't seem to be in the same spirit as the original game to me.

Overall...I didn't like the original premise, it seemed completely OPPOSITE of the original...and I think that put me off on it, but it didn't mean I wouldn't buy the game. Other items actually were of more interest to me in what they changed from the original. The story is just so much filler to give some sort of plausible background and not actually important to the game play overall I'd imagine (which is still the three front war against the US).

What shocked me though was how many Americans were so eager to use it as a pad to voice their own low opinions of themselves (afterall, as Americans they have a say in what their government does and how it acts...if they don't like it...GET INVOLVED and change it!!!! If one doesn't in the US...they only have themselves to blame).

In fact that disturbs me FAR more than anything dealing with the game itself. That people would put their own nations down can be understandable in some instances, but when it's a nation where THEY CHOOSE THE LEADERS, THEY VOTE ON THE ISSUES, AND THEY DECIDE THEIR NATIONS FATE...and then they complain about their own nation...it only makes me feel as if they hate themselves for some reason...and all of those around them.

Either that or they don't recognize the power they have with the ability to vote, to rally people to their cause, to assemble (though I admit, with some of the ways they've been treating the Occupy movement recently...I suppose that ability to assemble has been called into question a little bit) and call for action, and other actions in the US's democracy to make them feel so powerless as if they don't matter.

The first makes me angry, upset, and a little nervous that someone is so self loathing as to hate themselves and me. The latter makes me sad that there are those who don't realize the power they have in their own hands to make change and a difference.

I don't see FFG as backing down or wimping out. I think they also realize that such text was seriously able to inflame some emotions...and being in the US...it wouldn't be a good idea to inflame such emotions anymore than to be located in China and try to create a game that said the Chinese govt. was a bad entity doing bad things (well...maybe a better idea in the US than china...in the US they won't jail you and then flail you alive with bamboo sticks until your skin falls off and you bleed in a slow painful torture...but don't die type of way).

I think it was more of one FFG individual got the request to put something up for a news article, wrote it up and posted it but didn't run it through anyone to see if it was a good article or not. Later, when run through the wickets it was seen that it was worded differently than how the leadership actually intended it to be worded.

Edit:

The first one sounds like the summary of a series of news headlines from an independent point of view, the second one reads like a spin-doctored press release from the White House, Pentagon, or a modern corporate news source.

Pretty much what happened.

To tell the truth that's the other thing that disturbed me about the original blurb. It sounded more like someone trying to shove their political opinions down my throat more than something to interest me in a game. I don't care what you may put out for a game...but try to shove your political opinions down my throat on a game that really didn't support those political opinions in the original...and expect me to really pay for such an opinion...sorry...I can read a bunch of those for free without buying a game in the first place.

However...as I already stated, that was hardly any reason NOT to buy the game...I just didn't like the way they set it up via that particular blurb...and those blurbs from FFG aren't typically the exact descriptions they give on the box anyways.

I didn't really like the theme of Chaos in the Old world (in fact I find the theme rather disturbing) and yet I bought and played that game as well...thought it pretty good even as far as gameplay goes.

Anyways, I've been too longwinded on a topic that is perhaps too political for me.
 
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TheAuldGrump

First Post
The first one, I agree, definitely sounds like the marketing department was a little more, ahem, personally invested in that description. That said, an invasion of the United States on three fronts is about as fanciful as Sauron's forces attacking. The folks objecting should chill.
Hey! I happen to be a Mordor-American, and I find that offensive!

Had Gandalf not broken several treaties by sending infiltration experts - eugenically selected for their small size, against treaty! - into the sovereign territories of Mordor then you would all be licking Mordor boot by now! :rant:

The Auld Grump, in the land of Mordor, where the shadows stretch the truth, just a little bit. :p
 

Remus Lupin

Adventurer
See, now although I differ in some minor ways with what GreyLord has written, I guess I'm hung up on the fact that this is, aside from any incipient political critique it contains, a science fiction premise. One needn't argue that the U.S. is doing or is preparing to do what the game describes. One simply has to create a plausible narrative in which it could happen.

So on the one hand, it's odd to claim that America is doing anything like what this game describes, but it's also odd to suggest that the U.S. wouldn't do these things. In the SF universe that the game presupposes, the U.S. apparently has. So, I'm going to hold fast to the "it's just a story" approach to premises like this, and worry about the underlying criticism of U.S. policy that it entails later.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
This reminds me of another thread out in the webiverse about a game product that focuses on gypsies, and how someobody who comes from a real world gypsy background was offended that there were any negative stereotypes in the product. It is a game, and these are mythic archetypes put together to create a unique gaming experience. My wife is from a gypsy background, and she loves anything related to it. it would like me being offended at the telling of Irish and their whiskey jokes. I am Irish and the first ot make those jokes!

I get what your saying, but while both the Irish and the Gypsies (Roma) suffered discrimination in the past, the Gypsies STILL suffer a lot of discrimination in Europe, so they naturally (and quite fairly) are a bit more sensitive than the Irish.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
The first text sounds FAR more interesting, and far more exciting. But I guess I'm wondering just who is being offended by it? Even if you want to say it's inspired by recent U.S. international policy, it's still brilliantly far-fetched and an obvious hyperbole. If your skin is so thin that someone satirizing U.S. foreign policy by taking it to it's most ridiculous extreme offends you, then I think you need to step back and take a few deep breaths.

That about sums it up for me.

Quite frankly, I don't like it whenever anybody starts saying that something is so offensive to their values that it has no right to exist (as it currently exists, that is; this includes demanding something be changed).

It's fine to have an opinion (ideally, an informed one), but to say that your opinion is so sacrosanct that anything which offends it is unfit to be means that you're saying that your opinion is somehow more valid than that of the creator of whatever it is of which you disapprove. That's not just arrogant, but it's also when we start to move into true intolerance.

I've disliked a lot of America's foreign policy over the years, but fiction is fiction even if it has a commentary on contemporary politics. There are commentaries all over the internet, in the newspapers, on television; why should some people feel that a game, of all things, isn't entitled to express a sentiment based on the people who wrote it? If you don't like it, then just don't read/buy/play it!

It's this attitude of "This upsets me - change it!" which I think threatens actual liberty far more than any particular message that people want to change.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
What I dispute is that the U.S. would do any such thing (whoever's in charge).

I'll be honest, I didn't like the original blurb that FFG put out. <<snip>>

As we're allowed to get political . . . .

The idea that America would never do such a thing as start lazering other countries off the map is a part of one of the negative aspects of American culture. Our arrogance. We're the best, we have the moral high ground, we're the good guys . . . Our country has done some pretty terrible things in the past, we're doing some not so great things to others right now, and it isn't beyond reason that we might become a country that does terrible things in the future. We are, like the other nations of the world, a nation of human beings, beautiful and flawed.

The new "Fortress America" doesn't posit a near-future world that is a natural progression of our current path as a nation, and doesn't pretend to. However, it does posit a near-future world that could potentially come to be if certain aspects of our existing culture take prominence and we make the wrong choices. I don't find the scenario far-fetched at all . . . well, maybe the country-erasing megaweapon part, but that's the macguffin of the story.

FFG has turned a game capitalizing on the us-vs-them, democracy-vs-communism memes that were so prevalent in the 80s (not that they've gone away) to a dystopian warning against the worst elements of American culture. Just like a good dystopian novel, the story serves as a warning to not take this path . . . it isn't an American-bashing story at all. I find it fascinating and very bold of FFG to take the original premise which was a "rah-rah America!" premise to an "watch out America, we tread on dangerous ground" premise.

Of course, none of this should affect the gameplay!!! Three mega-countries invading the US on three fronts! With hover-tanks! Woo-boy! I used to own the original and found the game unbalanced, but I loved it anyway for those nifty primary-colored hover tanks.

Note, my opinions are no doubt colored by my political and philosophical leanings . . .

HOVERTANKS!!!
 


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