Kravel said:
I don't care what the President or some general says, when I was active military I would take a court martial and be shot before carrying out orders like those described in the first blurb.
Well, I'd hope the stuff in the first blurb is cartoony and hyperbolic enough that no one would take it too seriously. Even if someone thinks that America is a big scary warmongering monster, I can't imagine anyone believing that this is a realistic scenario (with hovertanks!).
I do think it's important to keep in mind that people with less...independence...can and certainly have done really, really unpleasant things, in actual fact, sometimes just because of an order. From
Milgram to
My Lai to
more recent events, it certainly doesn't require exceptional circumstances. It might be fanciful to think that America would declare war on the rest of the world, but it's not fanciful to think that people in general -- regardless of their national allegiance -- are capable of real, horrible things, even in the name of something they think is noble.
I say this as a man from a military family, with a grandfather who was in the Navy, a father who was a Marine, and a brother who is currently in the Army. WWII, Viet Nam, and Iraq are all familiar to us. I know for certain that they've all fought for the noblest of reasons. But I also know that war is an inherently dehumanizing process for everyone involved. Even if it's The Good Fight (say, fighting WWII-era German), it inevitably brings with it people doing The Wrong Thing (say, the Japanese Internment Camps), on both sides.
The game's a fanciful sci-fi future, as impossible as
Mad Max in its own way. But the idea that well-intentioned and morally-upright people do awful things in the name of something good that they believe in is a well documented historical fact of humanity. I think it's...dangerous, I guess, is the word...to ignore that.
Kravell said:
If I can't have the opinion that the U.S. is a nation to be proud of, I suppose ENWorld shouldn't have opened this thread up at all.
I'm proud to be part of a country where both this game, and the people who don't like it, can co-exist. I'm proud of a country where the military is made entirely of volunteers. I'm proud of a country that clings to high social virtues like freedom of religion and freedom of speech and human equality and the concept of a ruler chosen by the ruled, despite the times when it has struggled with those virtues.
That doesn't excuse or forgive the shameful things that have happened. I'm proud of my nation in spite of those things. I know it can do better than that. For me, it's important to see the country as it is, and to be able to love it as only a patriot could, to see its potential, to praise its greatness, and also to criticize its failings, because its not like the US is DONE improving.
I think that part of making this country great involves cultural media -- games, novels, movies, shows -- that show where we need to be extra-careful not to repeat our shameful mistakes of the past. This game is part of that constellation, saying "Hey. Don't go off all half-cocked chasing the dragon, here. Keep it together."
Saying that with hovertanks, sure, but still...
