Dear Mike & Monte

Doug McCrae said:

1. Don't be afraid to kill more sacred cows.
2. Don't be boring.

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3. Whoops! That wasn't a sacred cow we killed, it was the reason folks were playing the game....

Think about what cows you are killing, and if you kill them, don't be surprised when folks go to another cattle ranch to get back to the cows they liked.

I think that I may have milked that premise too much, but I could go on for heifer and heifer and heifer....

The Auld Grump, leaving WotC thoroughly cowed....

@Morrus if you want to have an art fight we can, but we're derailing this thread.

Rechan said:

@Morrus if you want to have an art fight we can, but we're derailing this thread.

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Here's fine. I feel art choice is fundamental. It is a powerful way to choose the feelings you wish to evoke in the reader.

Frostmarrow said:

1) I'd like to see the addition of a third building block to basic character creation. Not only would I like to pick race and tactical combat role. I'd also like to pick an out-of-combat role. You see, in combat I like to be a mobile lightly armored range attacker but out of combat I enjoy playing the learned thinker. In most games today I need to choose between playing rogue or wizard when in fact I'd like to play a guy with a bow and a book. (Multiclassing does not work for me as it adds skills I don't even care for).

I see the following out-of-combat roles:

The social character, for players who enjoy talking to NPCs.
The explorer, for players who likes to map, search and tinker.
The vigilant character, for players who wants to be the first to spot.
The sage, for players who like to have all the facts.
The athlete, for players who enjoy moving about.
The artisan, for industrious players.
The loose cannon, for the troublemakers.
...or whatever.

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This I can get behind - acknowledge that D&D is not just a game about combat, and sometimes folks do want to traipse through the faerie rings to interact with the little people.

2) Please keep all the old words and game terms. Don't inject new words. E.g. Move Silently was a perfectly good name for the sneak skill. Stealth is shorter and more succinct but it's too new. In D&D we already have a term for it. Paralyze, poison, death magic is a mouthful but Fortitude isn't traditional D&D.

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But I disagree with this one - don't have half a dozen different saves when, really, they are variants on three different themes - Fortitude, Reflex, and Will work just fine.

3) Don't forget about the DM. The player characters often try to find something out and they get powers to reveal whatever they are looking for. However, often the DM does not have an actual answer to reveal. The DM is trying to move the story forward without having to cover up plot holes as he goes along. Certainly the characters should have information gathering skills but the players should not be made to feel entitled to answers just due to successful checks. If the players ask the right question or look in the correct drawer the DM is more than willing to provide answers, regardless of what a spell or die reads.

Thanks!

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Agreed - A good GM is what makes a good game - give the GM room to flex his muscles. Give the GM tools to do his job. Don't make PC empowerment come at the expense of the GM's ability to do his job!

The Auld Grump

Zaukrie said:

1. Fix your marketing. It was and remains pretty bad ( I have a marketing MBA, btw). This is critical to the success of a new edition.

2. I think you need a default setting. There needs to be a way for new people to enter the game, and w/o this, not sure how they really do it.

3. I think you need more adventures, and better adventures. Same reason as above, plus adventures are what really give us a share experience. Btw, not all of us can make it to a gaming store, so only having the common experiences that way does not help.

4. Something magical is missing in 4E. Maybe I'm just too old, but something is missing. While I love all the powers and options, some of the magic is missing someplace. Also,magic is missing from the magic.

6. I think you need an entry level version of the game. I have no idea how a new player would start right now.

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Every game really needs a core focus that all the design choices revolve around. 3E was about codifying everything, to limit the impact of arbitrary GM's. 4E was about balance and simplification. 5E should be about new players, not us old farts.

Along these lines:
1) Fast character creation, without the necessity for detailed builds. You want new players up and running asap.
2) Along those lines, good digital tools, but don't design a system where players/GM's feel they must have those tools.
3) Simple base rules, with more complex options that can be mix-and-match. Those who like complexity can have it, without burdening all those players who just want to spend a few hours having fun with friends.
4) Limit the math. Computers are great with numbers, most humans do better with concepts and situations.
5) D&D, not Squad Leader. The tactics should be an important element of the game, but not the main focus. My friend's cousin should be able to play the game without feeling useless or like an idiot.
6) Eliminate the need for system mastery. It's okay if someone gains a slight advantage from going through the rules with a fine-tooth comb. But don't make it so that anyone who doesn't ends up with a suboptimal character.
7) Some decent starting adventures, with evocative art. Leave room at the end of these adventures for the GM to add more.
8) I'm less convinced that a default setting is required. But do provide info and examples to GM's on how to create their own. Emphasize the number one rule from the old Dungeonmastering articles - only create what you need, when you need it.

Face it, whatever design decisions are made in 5E, there will be a very vocal group of current or former players who will attack WOTC - they ruined my game, they left out [fill in the blank], they didn't playtest it enough, and so on. Just reading this thread, I see several suggestions that are diametrically opposed. WOTC has to accept that some portion of their current customer base is not going to like 5E.

But I do believe that if they focus on what a new player would want, what would cause someone to choose this game over the literally dozens of other options available, they'll end up with a game that the existing players will also enjoy.

More on art -

Humor in your illustrations!

Not every image needs (or should) be a joke, but some of the 3.X illos. that stick in my mind have inherent humor - Krusk aiding a Climb check, Lidda fails a Use Magic Device check.

Mostly, give a feeling that something is happening! Not just a pic of Krusk flexing his muscles, have him kicking in a door.

Have the cleric trying to do something about the ghouls that are climbing out of the well.

Have the characters be places, doing things, not just posing for the cameras.

The Auld Grump

TheAuldGrump said:

More on art -

Humor in your illustrations!

Not every image needs (or should) be a joke, but some of the 3.X illos. that stick in my mind have inherent humor - Krusk aiding a Climb check, Lidda fails a Use Magic Device check.

Mostly, give a feeling that something is happening! Not just a pic of Krusk flexing his muscles, have him kicking in a door.

Have the cleric trying to do something about the ghouls that are climbing out of the well.

Have the characters be places, doing things, not just posing for the cameras.

The Auld Grump

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Like I said - scenes, not photoshoots.

Morrus said:

Like I said - scenes, not photoshoots.

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Landscapes!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want landscapes more than anything else. What is this place? Why is it different. Movies and computer games understand this. 4E sure does not.

Look at Dark Sun, a totally new world, a world vastly different from the previous two campaign settings, but all we get is how weird the armor, weapons and races are.

I do agree with Morrus about 1E. I remember a lot of 1E art, like the skeleton coming out of the water as the adventurers frantically try to open a door.

Now that is an adventuring piece of art. A whole story and a look into the setting in one quarter of a page.

Dice4Hire said:

I do agree with Morrus about 1E. I remember a lot of 1E art, like the skeleton coming out of the water as the adventurers frantically try to open a door.

Now that is an adventuring piece of art. A whole story and a look into the setting in one quarter of a page.

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Oh yeah, baby! That fired my imagination.

Damn, if I had WotC's art budget, I could have so much fun with that.

Dice4Hire said:

I want landscapes more than anything else. What is this place? Why is it different. Movies and computer games understand this. 4E sure does not.

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I'm not into landscapes. Action scenes with background, yes. Set pieces, sure. But no landscapes without characters in a core rulebook. Especially if you don't have a default setting.