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  1. #21
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    Magsman (Lvl 14)

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    Really, the more I think about it, the only thing from 4e that needs to be redone are classes and magic items.

    The way 4e handles combat and monsters is a thing of beauty in actual play and pretty much RPG perfection. I can live without narrative combat as a viable option if it means the good stuff from 4e doesn't get mucked around with.

 

  • #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    I know there are corporate barriers and scale factors to such things - but you guys did it before, and it worked.
    Before, they had fewer outlets to worry about, I think. Engaging on all the larger boards at once probably isn't practical. So, they'd have to play favorites, and that can be another PR issue.

  • #23
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    The Great Druid (Lvl 17)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonblade View Post
    Really, the more I think about it, the only thing from 4e that needs to be redone are classes and magic items.
    I like your post and agree that they shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but what they should do is evolve, mature, develop "the baby." This means taking the power structure--which is an awesome idea--and notching it up a bit by differentiating power sources. Right now they feel too homogenous, with what I was calling a "too transparent sub-structure." In a way there are only four classes: Strikers, Controllers, Leaders, and Defenders; that makes sense from a combat/tactical perspective, but what is missing is distinct and unique flavor and qualities for the different power sources. An arcane striker and a martial striker should be very different, and not just in terms of fluff; I'd like one to be able to do things that the other can't.

    In that sense, I'd like to see arcane powers be more like spells from previous editions; looking over the wizard power list in 4E just doesn't have the same evocative feel that it did in previous editions with the never-ending spell lists.

    I also think that the Feat system is clunky to say the least. There are just too many feats, and too many useless ones (I've often wondered if there are some feats that have literally never been chosen by any D&D player anywhere). I'd like to see Feats scrapped and replaced by something akin to Talents or Traits, or even a Virtues and Flaws or Advantages/Disadvantages system that provides a wider variety of capacities and flavorings to add to a character (although the problem with Virtues and Flaws is that it is another opportunity to min/max).

    Finally, while I think 4E is generally a blast the main flaw remains the "grind" or, specifically, the point at which a combat is essentially decided but still goes on for another few rounds. I can't tell you how many times I've ad hoc reduced monster HP just to end a grinding combat. To put it another way, 4E combat is great for the first half of a given encounter, not-so-great for the second half. Maybe the implementation of a deadlier mechanic, like "When first bloodied, make a saving throw or fall to 0 HP and unconscious" (or maybe an adjusted CON check instead).

    But yeah, the core of 4E is great and (IMO) an improvement and evolution from 3.5. That should be the basis of 5E, not a return to 3.5, nor something completely different. Most of the issues that lapsed players have with 4E isn't, afaict, about the core but the general vibe and the details and/or secondary systems.

  • #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran View Post
    Before, they had fewer outlets to worry about, I think. Engaging on all the larger boards at once probably isn't practical. So, they'd have to play favorites, and that can be another PR issue.
    But how many "larger boards" are there? Afaict, the most trafficked RPG discussion sites are WotC, ENWorld, and RPGNet--everything else is far in the distance. Or am I missing something?

  • #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran View Post
    Before, they had fewer outlets to worry about, I think. Engaging on all the larger boards at once probably isn't practical. So, they'd have to play favorites, and that can be another PR issue.
    They do have their own message boards; if they preferentially went there (and communicated to a much greater extent then I've seen thusfar) who would complain? And beyond that I tend to agree with the above that there aren't that many really major rpg boards. I don't see how having a variety of access points for your fans is a problem. Pathfinder hasn't struggled with this at all; they communicate preferentially through their own site but they're here as well.
    "Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose"

  • #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurius View Post
    But how many "larger boards" are there? Afaict, the most trafficked RPG discussion sites are WotC, ENWorld, and RPGNet--everything else is far in the distance. Or am I missing something?
    Here's a map.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahnehnois View Post
    I don't see how having a variety of access points for your fans is a problem.
    I don't think communicating largely on their own boards would really fulfill Morrus' wish, what with that meaning all the interesting stuff would be over there, and not here.

    So, to fulfill the wish, you're talking about WotC folk maintaining different conversations on the same topics in several locations, which sounds like it isn't an issue, but you aren't the one who has to do that on top of having a day job producing the content that you're talking about in the discussions.

  • #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbran View Post
    I don't think communicating largely on their own boards would really fulfill Morrus' wish, what with that meaning all the interesting stuff would be over there, and not here.

    So, to fulfill the wish, you're talking about WotC folk maintaining different conversations on the same topics in several locations, which sounds like it isn't an issue, but you aren't the one who has to do that on top of having a day job producing the content that you're talking about in the discussions.
    Sure, like I said - there's a scale issue. It's a bigger job than it was back in the 3E buildup. I can totally see the challenges there; but, like you said - it's a wish, not a demand.


    It did feel back then that the designers were members anyway, and personally wanted to be here. I guess their own growing online presence took that away.

  • #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
    Thanks--I forgot about that. Looking over that map, my assertion seems basically true in that all of the sites that are close to the size of the Big Three are more specialized--Myth Weavers, for instance (PBP), or Giants in the Playground. A few of the company-specific sites are getting up there, but I think it would be highly inappropriate for WotC to discuss 5E on, say, Paizo's messageboards!

    So we're down to the Big Three: WotC, ENWorld, and RPGNet. Even if they cut out RPGnet as more focused on RPGs in general, that's only two sites that they could focus their attention on and get feedback from. Makes sense to me (thus this thread).

  • #30
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    Are there any regular WotC contributors on this site? It seems that Mike Mearls used to stop by occasionallyl, and of course Scott Rouse. Isn't there a "WotC Trevor" that posts here and on RPGnet?

    There is a striking difference between Paizo and WotC interactivity on this site. Whenever a conversation comes up about Paizo as a company, it seems that Erik Mona or Lisa Stevens or Jason Bulmahn end up showing up. But I can't say the same for WotC, at least since Rouse departed.

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