4 Hours w/ RSD - Escapist Bonus Column

As many of you know, the Escapist has recently run a 3-part series on the past, current and future of Dungeons & Dragons. The ENWorld coverage begins here. I contributed some insights to that column and wanted to take this opportunity to expand and clarify some of my thoughts on this topic. Who Is This Guy Anyway? I [Ryan Dancey] have been involved on the business side of hobby game...

As many of you know, the Escapist has recently run a 3-part series on the past, current and future of Dungeons & Dragons. The ENWorld coverage begins here.

I contributed some insights to that column and wanted to take this opportunity to expand and clarify some of my thoughts on this topic.

GenCon2009-LisaStevens-OVC0U8.jpg

Who Is This Guy Anyway?

I [Ryan Dancey] have been involved on the business side of hobby game publishing since 1993, when I operated one of the first on-line/mail order hobby game stores, RPG International. It was through my work at RPG International that I met the team at Alderac Entertainment Group with whom I co-created the Legend of the Five Rings intellectual property, eventually spinning it out into a stand-alone company called Five Rings Publishing Group which was acquired by Wizards of the Coast in 1997 as a part of the process whereby Wizards also acquired TSR. I was at Wizards, working as a brand manager on trading card games and eventually leading the brand and business unit for Dungeons & Dragons until early in 2001 when I left to found a startup providing organized play services to 3rd party game companies, wound that down in 2003 and worked as a consultant until 2007 when I became the Chief Marketing Officer of CCP. Currently I’m the CEO of Goblinworks, a startup company developing a next-generation fantasy MMO.

I give that background (again for those of you who read the first column in this series; sorry for the repetition) just to establish the fact that I’ve been watching this industry closely for a very long time and feel I’ve got some insights worth sharing.

The Tabletop Roleplaying Game Hobby Is Contracting

Let me begin with a few simple statistics.

In 1995, when I was writing the business plan for the Legend of the Five Rings CCG, I assumed, based on the conventional wisdom at the time, that there were approximately 5,000 full line hobby gaming stores in the North American market. After arriving at Wizards of the Coast in 1997, I was surprised to discover that Wizards had been able to identify (after extensive work) only about 2,500 stores. In addition, there were about 2,500-3,000 mass-market book stores that sold some hobby gaming products; mostly TRPGs, and mostly just D&D.

Today, the best data I have been able to assemble leads me to believe that there are less than 1,000 full line hobby gaming stores left, and there may be as few as 500.

Of those mass-market bookstores, B. Dalton is gone. Waldenbooks is gone. Borders is going. Barnes & Nobel is not healthy. Today, there are only about 1,000 mass-market bookstores left (717 are Barnes & Nobel stores). That is meaningful because historically 50% of the D&D business was sold via mass-market bookstores and the loss of those stores has directly impacted D&D (and other TRPGs) significantly.

In 1994, when I attended my first GenCon, the list of exhibitors at the show included many companies that earned most (or all) of their income from selling tabletop RPGs, and who employed one or more full time TRPG designer/developers: Atlas Games, Chaosium, Dream Pod Nine, FASA, Game Designers Workshop, Heartbreaker, Hero Games, Iron Crown Enterprises, Mayfair, Palladium, R. Talsorian, Steve Jackson Games, TSR, West End Games, White Wolf, and I’m sure there’s others I’ve regretfully omitted.

In addition to those companies there was another constellation of small publishers consisting of one or two people trying to make a start in the business, working part time as TRPG designer/publishers, and buzzing around all these companies were dozens (maybe as many as a hundred) freelancers who made all or a significant part of their incomes from TRPG design work.

It’s notable that many in the industry saw the period from 1994-1999 as being fairly bad for TRPGs. The twin rise of collectible card games and the Games Workshop hobby appeared to be draining the TRPG segment of designers and of revenue. The most obvious sign of this problem was the failure of TSR’s business, leading to its acquisition by Wizards of the Coast in 1997.

I would argue that the segment actually brought on most of its woes by simply producing too much product. The proliferation of games, game worlds, and “house systems” so fragmented the market that despite indications that overall revenue remained fairly constant for TRPGs as a segment, the income earned per product and per company became so sub-divided that many (both products & companies) became unprofitable.

A second major factor at work was the consolidation of the distribution tier. When I was selling Legend of the Five Rings in 1996, we had an initial list of North American distributors of about 50. By the end of the decade, that list had shrunk to about a dozen. In fact, virtually every distributor in the market was either sold or closed between 1990 and 1999 – the people who had created the distribution network for TRPGs cashed out to the people who rebuilt it for the CCG business.

This consolidation had an unexpected effect on the TRPG publishers. Every distributor prior to the late 1990s had engaged in a practice whereby they ordered product from TRPG publishers in bulk, and held the inventory in their warehouses to fulfill retailer orders as needed. The standard industry terms were for the distributors to pay the publishers 30 days after receipt of the products. This created cashflow that sustained the publishers – they did not have to wait for every book they printed to sell, they could get the money immediately and transfer the risk of slow sales to the distribution tier. And in addition, every distributor tended to order about 10% more than they could realistically sell, as a hedge against as surprise hit. When the distribution tier consolidated, the publishers suddenly lost tremendous volume in terms of sales and cash. That 10%, multiplied by 50 distributors, was a lot of books. And the distributors that were left were run with much tighter financial policies, leading many to cease pre-paying for inventory and instead asking to hold it “on consignment” – that is, they wanted to pay for the product as they sold it, transferring the risk back to the publishers.

When I took control of the brand & business unit for TRPGs at Wizards of the Coast at the end of 1997, I asked Lisa Stevens to do a market research project to figure out what had really happened in the history of the industry and how we had (collectively) gotten ourselves into the deep hole we found ourselves in.

There were two basic answers revealed by her research.

The first was that the products the industry was producing had become too costly. The boxed set, in particular, was a huge problem. The cost of a boxed set vs. a hardcover book was often a multiple, rather than a percentage. The cost of a hardcover vs. a softcover book was also substantial. In fact, we found several high profile D&D products that were costing the company more to make than the suggested retail price of those products! This issue was endemic throughout the industry, since many publishers assumed they had to “keep up” with TSR in order to be competitive. But TSR wasn’t acting rationally, and had set its suggested retail prices based on its opinion of what the market would pay, not based on what they needed to charge in order to make a profit on the things they were publishing.

In this field, we often use a shorthand pricing system called the “Rule of 5”. Under this rule, you determine the suggested price of a product by multiplying the cost of the product by 5. Factoring in the 3-tier distribution system the industry uses, the result is that the final suggested retail price produces the following divisions:

• 20%: Cost of Goods (the cost of the production of the product, plus the wages paid to people who worked on it and any licenses or royalties)
• 20%: Gross Profit (that is, profit before subtracting all operational costs like salaries, marketing, rent, etc.) to the Publisher
• 20%: Distributor Margin (the gross profit the Distributor earns)
• 40%: Retailer Margin (the gross profit the Retailer earns)

This means that every $1 of cost increases the suggested retail price by $5. Some of the things TSR was doing were adding $10 to the cost of its products – which should have added $50 to the suggested retail prices – easily pushing many of those products into the $100 range. Instead, TSR was just losing money every time it sold one of these products. And the people who made those products never knew, because TSR’s dysfunctional management system hid that information from them. It was not until they got to Wizards of the Coast and had a chance to see the “real numbers” that they realized what had been happening.

The second issue that Lisa’s data revealed led us to our conceptual breakthrough about the business of TRPGs that shaped every decision we made when bringing the 3rd Edition of D&D to the market.

We realized that TRPGs fall into a special class of products & services that generate network effects. In our case, the effect that had the most impact was the concept of the network externality. For TRPGs, the “true value” of the product is not in the book/box that you buy. It is in the network of social connections that you share which enable you to play the game. Without that social network, the game’s value is massively reduced (it becomes literature, and there’s a small market for people who like to just read and never play TRPG content).

We began to view the market not as a series of product pyramids (a core book at the top, and an ever-broadening base of support materials produced over time), but instead as a series of human webs that overlapped and interconnected. Where those webs were strong, the products flourished. Where they were weak, the products failed. The limiting factor to the growth and strength of the TRPG market was not retail stores or shelf space, it was human brains within which these games could interconnect.

The more segmented those brains became, the weaker the overall social network was. Every new game system, and every new variant to those systems, subdivided that network further, making it weaker. Between 1993 and 1999, the social network of the TRPG players had become seriously frayed. Even if you just looked at the network of Dungeons & Dragons players you could see this effect: People self-segmented into groups playing Basic D&D, 1st Edition, 2nd Edition, and within 2nd Edition into various Campaign Settings that had become their own game variants. The effect on the market was that it became increasingly hard to make and sell something that had enough players in common that it would earn back its costs of development and production.

We looked around the industry and saw the same problem at virtually every company that had become successful: White Wolf had 5 World of Darkness games which were all slightly different, surrounded by a more diffuse constellation of games somewhat related to the Storyteller system but designed to be mutually incompatible. FASA had 4 games, none of which shared anything in common. Palladium & Steve Jackson Games both had “house systems” that they tried to use across their entire product lines, but they had ended up with the “Campaign Setting” issue that was bedeviling TSR; the variant rules at the edges of their games were creating independent game networks despite the shared DNA of the core. And we knew that inside every one of those companies they were seeing the same financial information we were seeing: Each new release was selling fewer and fewer copies, and in response, the companies were increasing the pace of releases trying to sustain planned revenues by volume of titles, not by volume of units. And it was killing everyone.

Our analysis lead us to the conclusion that in order to escape this trap, D&D at least had to try and unify its player community around one set of universally acceptable rules. And we had to cut back drastically on the number of different books we were publishing to focus spending on individual titles to drive up profitability. It was literally better to sell 7 copies of one book vs. 5 copies of two different books due to the economies of scale involved.

We hooked that train up to the engine of the Open Gaming License to help spur consolidation of game systems towards a common core, and to enable publishers who wanted to just make a great world or a cool sourcebook to do so without having to first make their own homebrew RPG (and thus fragment the market), and watched the resulting highly entertaining explosion in creativity and revenues in the market starting in 2000.

If you take that list of companies that were active at GenCon in 1994, you have to add all sorts of new names by the time you get to the GenCons of 2001/2: Alderac Entertainment Group, Decipher, Eden Studios, Fantasy Flight Games, Goodman Games, Green Ronin, Guardians of Order, Holistic Design, Kenzer & Co, Malhavoc Press, Mongoose, Necromancer, Pagan Publishing, Pinnacle Entertainment Group, and a host of others that I’m certainly omitting unintentionally. Of course many of these companies were active prior to the OGL/D20 era and many never published D20 products but they all benefited from the resurgence of D&D.

Add to that a number of “indie” RPG companies that were supporting one or two full time designer/publishers like Ron Edwards, Luke Crane, and Vince Baker. The indy RPG segment was getting good advice and learning how to be financially viable via the exchanges on the Forge and other sites dedicated to small press publishing – work that continues to today and has helped create a large number of independently published small TRPGs exploring niches that larger mass-market TRPGs would never have attempted.

Feeding all that activity was an even larger cadre of freelancers than had been in place in the 1990s – the D20 System enabled folks who would never otherwise have tried their hand at commercial design to get paid for their ideas, who joined the pre-existing ranks of freelance creative people working with the major publishers.

Let’s set the high-water mark of the TRPG industry as GenCon 2003, where Wizards released the 3.5 edition of D&D. Shortly thereafter the dominoes started to fall: Incompatibilities between 3.0 and 3.5 meant that a lot of inventory on store shelves became “obsolete” in the minds of customers, resulting in a huge drop in sales and an effort by the retailers to clear that inventory at deep discounts. With the drop in sales came a drop in orders for new products – retailers got skittish about investing more money into a market that was causing them massive headaches.

It’s possible that things could have found a natural bottom at this juncture, and that the market could have rebuilt itself on the 3.5 platform.

Unfortunately, it was never going to get that chance.

At the end of 2004, Blizzard released World of Warcraft. The MMO market which had been considered an interesting curiosity by the tabletop RPG market suddenly exploded. Whereas the previously most successful game (EverQuest) had attracted about 400,000 concurrent paying accounts at the height of its success, World of Warcraft exceeded a million players within 12 months. By the end of 2007, it had more than 5 million players in the US and Europe. An entire new market grew up around World of Warcraft as other companies rushed into the space, quickly creating offerings outside of the basic fantasy of Warcraft, including superheroes, science fiction, cyberpunk, and military history: the very foundations of the TRPG market.

Worse (for the TRPG business) the MMOs also went after young children and engaged them in ways that TRPGs weren’t. Club Penguin, in particular, was so good at getting young kids into its game that Disney bought it for $700 million, and it was reported to have more than 30 million kids playing it.

Almost overnight the TRPG industry suffered two quick body-blows. A large number of people within its network externality left their TRPG groups to focus on MMOs. And instead of receiving the benefits of an acquisition engine generating new players every year, young kids got diverted into MMOs at an age earlier than any suitable TRPG offering, likely establishing a play pattern they’ll keep through to adulthood.

The effects on the TRPG market are now quite visible. At GenCon 2011, the number of companies that were paying full time salaries for TRPG game designer/developers was reduced to a short list: Alderac Entertainment, Kenzer & Co., Fantasy Flight Games, Margaret Weiss Productions, Mongoose, Palladium, Paizo, Steve Jackson Games, White Wolf, Wizards of the Coast, and one or two smaller “indy” publishers. Missing from that list are many of the successful companies that were thriving in 1994 and 2001/2 – lost to the industry as well are the freelancer jobs that those companies used to sustain.

Some of those companies continue to publish as secondary sources of income for their owners: Green Ronin and Pinnacle Entertainment Group are great examples of this phenomenon. But that seems to me to be a very precarious place to operate - the margin for error (or accident) is razor thin.

And the contraction is continuing. Wizards of the Coast has laid off a number of designers, as has White Wolf. Hero Games announced that it is ceasing to operate with a full-time staff. Problems at Catalyst indicate that it may be a while before they’re able to sustain the TRPG businesses they inherited from FASA.

So we see the causes: Rise of MMOs, collapse of retailing, and consolidation of distribution. And we see the effects – loss of jobs, shuttering of companies, and virtually no new startup publishers in the space with a mass audience.

Where Does This End?

My opinion is that the hobby gaming industry is going to transform into a very small niche business. It will cater primarily to an aging group of players who have made TRPGs their lifetime hobbies. As those players age, they’ll need less and less support in the form of commercially produced products. They will instead seek out community support tools to help them remain in touch with their hobby even as the social network they’re directly connected to becomes ever more frayed.

In the Escapist articles I am quoted as saying that this process will be like the evolution of the model train hobby. What I could have been more clear about was that my belief in this transformation is driven not by escalating costs (as in the case with model trains) but instead by the lack of an effective acquisition engine to drive new players into the TRPG hobby, and by the continued subtraction from the TRPG social network caused by MMOs.

As neither of these problems is structural to the TRPG industry, and are both driven by external factors, there’s very little that can be done to counter them directly.

Future Paths

Digital


The first thing that a lot of folks ask for when engaged about the future of the hobby is a virtual table top. It seems kind of obvious – if MMOs are breaking the social network of TRPGs then the way to fight back is to take the TRPG to the MMO’s territory and enable distributed on-line play.

The problem is that VTTs exist, and they’re not successful. If you give people the choice between a VTT and an MMO, they pick the MMO. The VTT doesn’t solve the real problem that is that the MMO experience is simply better for a significant portion of the former TRPG social network. My opinion is that a successful and widely used VTT will remain an elusive mirage despite how much effort is poured into developing them.

That is not to say that there’s no role for digital in the future of the TRPG. Transforming the delivery mechanism of TRPGs into digital products is, I think, the likely evolutionary path. And I’m not talking about just PDFs of printed books – I’m talking about the idea of making a digital product that takes advantage of all that implies to deliver an improved tabletop experience using iPad-type technology.

Conversion to Family Games

I define a Hobby Game as one where (at least one person) spends more time preparing to play the game than actually playing it. For TRPGs that is usually the GM, but often it is players as well. This “out of game time” may be the biggest obstacle to overcome to keeping the TRPG platform competitive.

I think that commercially successful TRPGs of the future will be constructed more like a family game – something that can be unpacked, learned quickly, and played with little prep work. These games will give people a lot of the same joy of “roleplaying” and narrative control that they get from today’s Hobby Game TRPGs but with a fraction of the time investment. Wizards is already experimenting with this format, as is Fantasy Flight Games. It seems like a good bet that there is a substantially profitable business down this line of evolution.

Pathfinder

I will end this essay by talking a bit about Pathfinder and it’s role in the market.

One of the goals of the OGL and the D20 project was to ensure that no single company would ever have the ability to kill Dungeons & Dragons. TSR almost did so; near the end of its existence it had pledged the copyrights and trademarks of the D&D franchise as security against loans it could not afford to repay. Had TSR gone into bankruptcy it is likely that for at least some time, and possibly an extremely lengthy period, nobody would have had the right to publish using that IP while the bankers fought over the carcass of TSR.

The OGL/D20 project also ensured that a version of D&D would exist as of the 3rd Edition version no matter what future incarnation of D&D might be developed. Future versions of D&D would be benchmarked against that milestone, and if the market decided they did not want to switch to the new version, unlike in previous iterations where all commercial support for the previous version would be terminated, the market would be able to keep supporting the version that they preferred. This raises a high bar to future versions of D&D – you have to be so much better than the 3e game that people will voluntarily switch platforms.

Pathfinder has (obviously) become the game that represents that 3rd Edition milestone in the minds of the majority of the players, and is benefiting from the fact that it seems the number of voluntary switches to 4e was less than Wizards had hoped.

Any time a market contracts, a phenomenon is observed which is called a “flight to quality”. This means that the people who remain in a contracting market tend to concentrate their business around the most successful parts of the market, hoping that they’ll be able to ride out the collapse and make it to a future expansionary period. This is what is happening right now with Pathfinder. The social network that was coalesced by the D20 System has been inherited by Pathfinder. Even as the rest of the market is getting smaller, Pathfinder is getting bigger because its attracting all the people who remain interested in the TRPG format.

Paizo, for its part, is still trying to re-start the acquisition engine. The Beginner Box it released this year is the best intro product that the TRPG market has seen in well over a decade (maybe 2 decades). I’m certain that there are kids who got it for Christmas and are right now getting their first taste of the TRPG experience. Hopefully those kids will decide to spend at least a part of their gaming time around the tabletop rather than the MMO virtual worlds. Only time will tell.

My instinct is that Pathfinder will be the lifeboat that the long-term hobbyists will use to keep the social network from fraying past the point of no return. There’s enough people playing it and interacting both locally and virtually that I think it has the momentum it needs to sustain itself even if a total worst case scenario would unfold (Barnes & Noble also fails, and the full line hobby game store ceases to exist). Paizo is doing the right things in making its community and its market one unified whole, which is a great insurance policy against forces beyond its control.

Where Goes D&D?

I’d like to expound on this topic in more detail. Unfortunately, I’m privy to confidential information that makes that impossible at this time. I see the same things you all see – Monte Cook going back to Wizards of the Coast and a general recognition in the market that 4th Edition was not commercially successful. I think that in 2012 I’ll have a lot more to say about D&D, but that will have to wait for a future column. For now I’ll just end by saying that I hope with all my heart that the folks at Wizards of the Coast figure out how to get that franchise righted and back on track, because it would be good for the hobby in general for D&D to become a strong brand again.

--RSD / Atlanta, December 2011
 

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Ryan S. Dancey

Ryan S. Dancey

OGL Architect
My comments might have sounded like I was anti-VTT. Obviously, as someone who just released a VTT, I'm not. =)

I think roleplaying can be done online, and in a lot of cases, better than real life. I just disagree with the idea that the Stack-o-Books style of gaming will ever be a good fit for the online medium. Maybe it's a fine stopgap for existing gamers who are willing to make the conceptual leap, but I don't see it as a way to revitalize the hobby as some people seem to be saying.

My guess is that 10 years from now, the most popular solution will look more like an online game with role-playing capabilities, than an app that tries to translate the current tabletop scene.

Well, I sort of agree. I think games that are specifically designed to be played online are the way to go. I think those games can however be just as deep and have just as much material as any TT RPG. They can have books and/or digital material that goes with them. Why wouldn't they really? There's no reason people would NOT want to have the same sort of creative material.

Clearly it will be a somewhat different sort of business, but in many ways it may not be THAT different. You'd have creative people to write settings, adventures, monsters, whatever, etc. In a lot of ways it would probably work a lot like the way WotC runs DDI now. It will just require the evolution of all the tools and whatnot required to support the proper workflow in addition to the software to run a game (VTT or whatever one wants to call it).

IMHO this really is the future for at least one branch of the RPG industry. I can see the argument that the existing TT RPG industry doesn't go away and this is some sort of 'new thing', but it seems to me like from the standpoint of a company in the business it is something that could become their business or part of it.
 

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Ahwe Yahzhe

First Post
Network Externalities and such

I In contrast to the 90's and 00's, I've seen many more young gamers join in the last three years and many say this is the era where geek is cool. Most Encounters DMs have a story of a parent bringing in a young kid (I saw at least seven in my first two seasons of Encounters, with two becoming being regular players). I saw many young teenagers at PAX Prime this and last year. I see more young players at LFR conventions. I see a lot of young gamers at Gen Con the last two years. I see gaming stores catering to the young with Pokemon games and then transitioning them to other games as well. Stores in Seattle bring in buses of school kids and in Portland they have D&D Summer and Winter Camps. Do you see this increase as well? How large is the drain from MMOs?
I'm a latecomer to this thread too, but
I found the whole "acquisition" and "network externality" portion of this discussion too interesting not to comment.

I think Ryan Dancey has tied the demise of some marketing channels too closely to the issue of network effects and player acquisition. Brick & mortar retail channels may have improved network externalities by increasing the availability of game products, but game products are just as easily obtained through online retail channels today. And while Amazon.com does nothing to reinforce the network effect through player acquisition (as is often bemoaned), neither did brick & mortar bookstores. So that leaves hobby games stores and peer groups as the primary sources of player acquisition.

While Ryan Dancey may be close on his estimate of only 500-1000 hobby game stores left in the US, I think the composition of many of those surviving game stores is telling. Many now-defunct hobby game stores were no better than niche brick & mortar bookstores; when online retailers beat them on product price, availability, and service, they started to go out of business right along with them. Five years ago my local FLGS (the stereotypical narrow-aisled rat nest with posters covering the windows, a disinterested clerk and a stale fast-food smell) was replaced with a new game store designed around a model that other successful game stores seem to be following: A full-spectrum store that sells chess, backgammon, poker, and party games in the front, boardgames in the middle (from "feeders" to Eurogames and various licensed property games), and TRPGs and miniature combat games in the back. (CCGs are in and behind the glass sales counter, as always.) The most distinctive feature of this successful game store (which just doubled in size at its new location), however, is the fact that over half of its square footage is dedicated to tables for playing any kind of tabletop games, with late hours to support after-school or after-work players. This allows for a weekly and monthly scheduled of organized play events that build a local gaming community. Players come in to buy or play one game, and come back to buy or play others, including D&D (and occassionally Pathfinder.) That is why programs like Encounters may be more important to WotC than LFR, because they provide an organized play format in these stores targeted at new player acquisition. (And Lair Assaults to try to bring in experienced players from their home games.) I would back up Alphastream's anecdotal evidence of more new (young) players- I've helped plenty of high school and college students, kids brought in by their parents, and lapsed D&D players (some overlap on those last two categories, of course) learn the ropes of current edition D&D in these short 1 or 2-hour sessions. This is where Paizo has to sell its (excellent) Beginner Box, because it can't survive indefinitely on aggregated (but still dwindling) legacy edition players. If nowhere else, these kind of game stores will be the drivers of new player acquisition.* TRPGs will survive or thrive as part of this larger hobby gaming community.

I'm not sure what VTTs may do other than hold onto TRPG players not supported by a "new-format" game store, but TRPGs are a different playing experience than MMOs and similarly shouldn't be compared to them other than in the largest sense of competing for a gamers' finite budget and leisure time.

-AY


*Conversely, I always thought that the reason the WotC retail stores (remember those?) failed was their narrow product focus and inability to support organized play- those mall stores didn't have the square footage for game tables.
 

fumetti

First Post
As a high school teacher, one who connects with the gamer types, I think their problems with paper and dice based RPGs are simple:

1) Video games require no set up time.

2) Video games require no significant reading (or abstract thinking).

3) Video games can be played solo, and at one's own pace.

4) Video games are socially acceptable; TRPGs still aren't.



To create a new generation of paper and dice gamers, one must overcome those conditions.
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
See, they should be here, now, talking and discussing D&D with us fans. That's the kind of interaction they need to show us that they're willing to do. Talk with us about D&D. Come to these forums and just talk. Be honest and talk with us. Why won't they do that? It would go a long way to fostering goodwill between WotC and us gamers. Just my opinion.

They do - sometimes. Mearls more than Monte, I think - although Monte does have his own boards where he has been quite responsive in the past.
 

RyanD

Adventurer
Alphastream said:
(much commentary)

I'll try to answer your questions as best I can but I'll tell you up front that the kind of rigor you're looking for with regards to numbers doesn't exist. For example, the distributors don't share information about retail sales with publishers, so no publisher knows where the distributors are sending its products or in what quantity. As you'll see from some of my other answers below, some of the data the publishers might have is often contaminated by people lying to get perks & benefits they're not really entitled to get.

Games Workshop likely has the very best data of everyone. They sell their stuff through their own stores and through stores they act as their own middleman for. They use 3rd party distribution sparingly. Games Workshop is the only public company in the hobby gaming space (Hasbro pointedly does not break out Wizards of the Coast information in its SEC filings - I'm certain because they don't want the researchers that follow them (or their competitors) to know what a huge percentage of their bottom line profits come from Magic and from D&D licensing). You can get Games Workshop's information directly from their website (look for the investors links). They're listed under GAW on the FTSE stock exchange in London. Go back as far as you can before you start reading - the annual reports are just fascinating and reveal a tremendous amount about the hobby over the past 10+ years.

Wizards has never released its market research data after the report I published in '99/'00. They have mountains of such data but they keep it close to the vest. I wish they'd be more open, it would be useful to everyone in the industry and would have very little impact on them.

If you want to see what the market was like in the 1990s, I recommend that you get archives of Comics & Games Retailer. They had a monthly retail store survey that tracked the popularity of various products. The conventional wisdom in the industry was that the numeric data was worthless, but that the ranking order of sales was actually usually quite accurate. From time to time I do presentations at industry shows about this data but they're less and less useful now (the magazine itself is defunct and didn't capture much data of use after the early 2000s).

You can also look to the reports currently produced by ICv2. These reports don't show unit volumes and they also are compiled from retailer surveys so the accuracy may be questionable, but I think the rankings are usually pretty accurate.

There is no independent 3rd party source for unit volume data on any hobby gaming product which I consider reliable. The industry lacks something like BookScan or SoundScan, and it is poorer for it. The reasons for this are long and convoluted but they are likely unfixable so its a situation everyone has resigned themselves to living with.

Finally I'll say that as an industry insider I get a lot of information I simply can't share. My ability to get that information is based in large measure on my reputation for not disclosing it. If people felt that I would take information given to me in confidence and repeat it, they'd stop sharing it with me. So I will often tell you that I know what I know but I can't tell you how I know it. Still, I think that's better than nobody telling you anything, and like Mark says, often with a little work you can get some verification of certain facts by creative Google searches.

Ok, as they say in Iceland: áfram med smjörid! (On with the butter!)

Alphastream said:
First, on the numbers. If I use the Wizards locator to find stores running Encounters I come up with more than 500. If I widen the search to stores selling D&D, I come up with even more. Do you really feel confident about your numbers?

The Wizards locator (like all store locators in the industry) has 3 problems:

1: Some of the stores in it will have ceased to exist. Turnover is ferocious, especially with new young stores. Most don't last the first year they're in business. But Wizards won't remove them until some database cleanup cycle which doesn't happen every year.

2: Some of the stores in it never existed. They're individuals posing as retailers to get store perks and access to various organized play promotional materials. Some of these folks will go so far as to mock up a retail space for the purposes of shooting pictures to "prove" they're Brick & Mortar stores, get business licenses, maybe even build a website. Wizards' ability to identify and remove these people is always less than the need to do so (its time consuming and most of the time you'd rather spend headcount dollars on someone that will help grow your business rather than enforcing rules against cheaters).

3: Some of the stores in it aren't game stores. They're stores that sell Magic or (less commonly) D&D, but that's it. The "game store" might be one rack of product maintained by the son of the owner for himself and his buddies. Again, they're seeking access to the promotional stuff Wizards produces. They may run a Friday Night Magic or an Encounters session on a for-profit basis (or just because they love the games), but they're not Full Line Game Stores.

Alphastream said:
Also, how critical are hobby stores?

Mission critical for everyone but Wizards, and reasonably critical for Wizards. Excepting the TRPGs sold in mass market bookstores, the primary venue for all hobby gaming product is the full line game store. All the on-line sales and direct sales end up being about 20% of the unit volume of 80% of the publishers (and not just TRPGs, but CCGs, boardgames and minis too).

They represent the chance to present a game option to a buyer who is in the right frame of mind to make a purchase. This cannot be overstated: Getting someone into a game store with money to spend and an interest in buying is the primary method a publisher sells that all-important first purchase to a player. Maybe they go on to buy supplements/expansions/etc. from other sources, but they're highly unlikely to buy that first thing anywhere other than a game store.

The TRPG business used to have some of this effect in mass-market stores but as I've been watching them over the years the selection and variety of the books on offer has gone down and now it is likely that just Wizards and Paizo are getting any of this benefit.

So if you want to make a TRPG that isn't Dungeons & Dragons or Pathfinder, you better hope you've got full line game stores to sell it too, or nobody will ever be likely to start playing it.

The other thing the retailers do is provide a pool of capital. They typically pay their distributors COD, and in rare cases on Net 30 terms. That money flows upstream to the distributors and thence to the publishers. Every unsold copy of a game on a retailer's shelves represents an investment by that retailer in that publisher. The more stores, the larger the pool of capital. The fewer stores, the less capital.

Alphastream said:
So we go from 15 in 1001 to 10 in 2011...

Sorry - you misunderstood. I said you had to add the newcomers in 2001 to the publishers that existed in the 90s (very few of whom went out of business in the interim). By the time you get to 2012, you see a big reduction in absolute numbers of TRPG publishers, and even greater reduction in the number of living-wage paid TRPG design/development positions because the companies operating in 2012 do so with less staff than they (or their peers) did in 2001.

Alphastream said:
Somewhere in there you sort of say that the problem is 3.5, but is this a major factor?

Yes, it was a huge factor. You have to understand that most publishers have no room for error. A failure of just one release can put them into technical bankruptcy. Many publishers operate for years with negative cash flow, slowly draining the bank accounts of their owners. 3.5 was brutal to the industry because it was such a surprise to everyone. Many publishers got caught with 3.0 products in the pipeline or on store shelves and they faced immediate cashflow problems as a result. There just isn't enough of a shock-absorber in the system to cope.

You'll remember that when we did 3.0 we announced it a full year before we shipped it, and 2e didn't have any publisher ecology to support. Still, retailers took an (unavoidable) beating on the 2e product that they had on their shelves during that period.

And I said that the market could possibly have recovered even from that had it not been for the rise of the MMO. We'll never know, but 3.5 was a good system and it had fan interest. If the publishers had more runway they may have been able to recover and get back into profitability. But they didn't have that runway (a factor utterly beyond Wizards' control).

Alphastream said:
What, really, is the value to the OGL?

80% of the profits earned by D&D come from sales of the 3 core rulebooks. The rest of the product line is effectively a self-subsidizing marketing campaign. The core rulebooks are reprinted endlessly, allowing their development costs to be amortized over many more units than anything else in the line. The core books are also the products with the widest footprints - they are the things new stores sell, and the beachead the game uses to open a new channel of sales.

You can (and should) think of the D&D business as the business of selling the core books. If you get distracted and think you're in the business of selling campaign setting or rules expansions you'll end up with a less profitable business.

The OGL means that there's an even larger product-driven marketing campaign to sell those books. Every 3rd party product that gets people interested in playing a fantasy TRPG leads eventually to a D&D core book sale. Even when someone makes a non-D&D RPG, what they're doing is expanding the fractal interface of TRPG exposure. Once someone is exposed to TRPGs, and they start to play, all the data shows that they're likely to eventually play D&D. That's the power of the network externality.

So the OGL, for Wizards of the Coast, is basically a way of selling high-profit core books.

Alphastream said:
{In response to my description of the damage that campaign settings had on the core game social network} To what extent, though, was this a problem due to so much of the product lines being unprofitable or otherwise problematic? It is often said that having Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Planescape, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, etc. created a rift. And surely, it was an issue that no player could afford to go very deep in all of these. But, was it really hurting the company in a given year? If there were three products for Greyhawk in one year, was a Greyhawk gamer stopping then and not buying the three Planescape products because that's different, but they would have purchased three more Greyhawk products? Isn't there a balance where you can have a few settings to have wider appeal?

First, you have to go back to the 1990s TSR catalogs to get a sense as to how absurd this problem was allowed to become. TSR was producing seventy or eighty new releases a year. It was common that every month there was a Forgotten Realms release. Look at how deep the product lines are for things like Dark Sun and Planescape - lines that only existed for a handful of years.

Second, obviously the smart money is on having fewer campaign settings. For 3e, we had two: Greyhawk & Forgotten Realms. And Greyhawk was supported primarily through the Living Grehawk RPGA campaign with very little published content, meaning that we monetized directly just the Forgotten Realms. And further, unlike the 2e era, we tried to ensure that the Forgotten Realms products would not create their own core systems, but would build off of systems in the core books and thus could be used as supplements for any game even if not using the rest of the Realms canon. In those objectives I think we were extraordinarily successful. And on top of that, we charged a 20% price premium for Realms products - in other words, we made the brand of the Forgotten Realms pay for itself, as opposed to just subtracting value from the core D&D brand.

I could write a whole essay on this topic (and in fact I have done so, some Google search will probably turn it up).

Alphastream said:
We see something different with Pathfinder. If I look at the catalog, I'm overwhelmed by all the components of Golarion.

Paizo has a different kind of market than Wizards does. It has subscribers, who have opted in to a monthly purchase process. And Paizo is really careful about differentiating between Golarian content and core Pathfinder content. There's only 3 core Pathfinder rulebooks (the core book and the Ultimate books). Everything else is either monsters, magic items, or Golarian source material. So a person who just wants to use "Pathfinder" in their homebrew hasn't been asked to acquire a bunch of stuff. And the Golarian stuff is very careful to avoid creating systems, but sticks to developing content presented in the core, so folks don't feel like they're missing "part of the game" if they don't buy everything. It helps Paizo tremendously that they're operating so close to so many of their customers without the obfuscation of the distribution/retailer tiers so this kind of strategy can be communicated effectively.

Alphastream said:
(in response to my comment about hooking the OGL up to the 3.0 bus and watching the explosion of market activity)Was that an increase to the industry, or to Wizards, or to both? Are there any available numbers on this, and is it possible to separate out the "boom that will be a bust" from revenue that would hang on after the bust?

Nope, there's no numbers that can be shown. The only facts I have are Wizards numbers. And most of those are confidential. The one thing I can tell you is that when TSR did the transition from 1e to 2e in 1998, they sold 289,000 Player's Handbooks in 1998. We sold 300,000 3e Players Handbooks in about 30 days. And the trajectory of the rest of the product line mimicked the PHB.

3.5 was not driven by the 10 year plan we left the TRPG team with, and 3.5 was not done the way I would have done it even on that plan. I think that its impossible to disentangle what happened after 2003 from the decision to do 3.5, so it's impossible to say if the "bust" was foreordained or not.

Alphastream said:
You mention that the change from 3.0 to 3.5 really drove the bust. Was it inevitable, just due to the volume? I recall seeing shelves full of d20 adventures, and the ratings for them were abysmal (though they were priced really low). Were the sales really high enough that this was a true loss for the stores rather than making the reality of dead inventory due to no quality control clear?

Go into a bookstore and look at the offerings for any genre. What you see are a handful of best sellers, a larger (but still limited) selection of evergreen titles, and then a whole lot of crap. Do that in a music store (if you can find one). Do it in any creative field of endeavor. Sturgeons Law (90% of anything is crap) always applies. This mountain of crap does not drive cyclical booms & busts in creative industries. And it didn't drive one in the TRPG business either.

The thing you need to understand is that during the D20 "bubble", the retailers made more revenue & profit than they had ever made before or since in the history of the hobby. And not because of TRPGs. Because of Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh!. The year we released 3e, 2000, we fixed a broken business, restored an entire unit to profitability, and outsold every projection by multiples (not percentages). And you know what? We were a pimple on the elephants ass of Pokemon. In that one year, 2000, Pokemon made more than eight times as much money as Magic: The Gathering, and an even higher multiple of what D&D did.

Pokemon spiked and was mostly a non-factor after 2003 (funny timing that with 3.5, eh?) but Yu-Gi-Oh! took its place and instead of spiking it plateaued and maintained for about 5 years.

Those two products combined firehosed about a 200% increase in overall revenue into the retail tier. The losses they took on unsold d20 product were rounding errors. In fact, it's likely that the availability of all that mass-marekt CCG cash enabled stores to take gambles on D20 products of suspect provenance which is one reason there was so much crap in the channel in the first place. If you don't really care that much about if you sell something or not, you're more likely to speculate (or buy with your heart, which is what a lot of game store owners do when times are good).

Alphastream said:
In contrast to the 90's and 00's, I've seen many more young gamers join in the last three years and many say this is the era where geek is cool.

We're seeing an all-new type of person in the market now. These people are "lifestyle gamers" not "hobby gamers". They're not dedicated to, or interested in a lifetime affiliation with a game system or game type. They enjoy all sorts of gaming - video games, family games, hobby games - with equal passion. They seek out experiences that reward them for being smart and thinking quickly, as opposed to mastery of rules intricacy. They don't see themselves as defined by the games they play. They won't say "I'm a D&D player" like many hobby gamers would. They'll say "I think D&D is cool", which is a whole different kettle of fish.

These people will have to have products purpose built for them, and those products won't look like the pyramid shaped "lines" that hobby gamers are used to. They'll look like bestselling novels, maybe trilogies, where you play them and then move on to something else rather than having a high-replay value. And while they'll reward being a bright, savvy gamer, they won't require you to know that you get a +2 circumstance bonus when flanking, and how to determine if you're flanking, and sell you miniature figures and battlemats to show that you're flanking. So I'm absolutely talking about not "dumbing down" the games, just making them smart in a different way than we're used to.

Alphastream said:
But they are also hiring and added designers. Have they really decreased in size over the last few years?

Unquestionably yes. I would estimate that they've got less than 50% of the designers/developers that they had as of 2003. Maybe even less than that. And overall, the number of full-time, living wage positions for TRPG designer/developer positions in the industry may be 20% of what it was in that era.

Alphastream said:
Could we not argue that the OGL has made it impossible for D&D to move forward and leave old versions behind? If the game needs to change in design, needs to be innovative to compete, and must attract new gamers, then doesn't it have to move forward?

I can imagine several ways to develop a 4th edition of D&D that are different from what was done. The design horizon of 5th Edition (should such a thing exist) has to be more narrow, because it must be built in response to the reaction to 4th.

I can imagine developing a 4th edition that was less complex, but still rooted in the 1e/2e/3e design tradition of D&D. I can imagine de-emphasizing the Power Gamer quadrant of the player demographic and doubling down on the Storyteller and Character Actor quadrants. I can imagine learning something from the narrative control experiments in the "indy" RPG scene and bringing that to the D&D game to change the way the DM and players interact. I can imagine all sorts of ways to advance D&D, without putting the game into a paradigm shift. But now that it's been shifted, well, options for further progress become much more limited.

Alphastream said:
Would 4E have not been a continually massive success if the OGL had not existed?

My opinion is no. If you add up the unit sales of 4e + Pathfinder (and any other d20-derived game) over 4e's life, the total is going to be less (substantially less) than the same numbers of either 3e or 3.5e, and I suspect lower than 2e as well.

The MMO problems affect D&D as much as they affect everything else. 4e is a game that was launched into the teeth of a hurricane, and on its own merits, it didn't have a level playing field.

Alphastream said:
Wait, but hasn't it been on par with Pathfinder on sales (mostly tied or higher, sometimes lower)? Is that not enough to be commercially successful?

Success for 4e was defined (by Wizards) as generating annual revenues between $50 and $100 million. By that (self-imposed) definition, it is a failure.

Profitability for D&D means that it has to recoup all the costs not only of its development and its on-going support network but also the investment into DDI. I suspect, but do not know, that it has not recouped those costs. And I suspect that none of the current product line (the stuff being solicited and sold as new this year and last year) is even marginally profitable when you factor in the overhead of the sales & marketing teams, plus the RPGA.

Wizard's cost basis is several orders of magnitude higher than Paizos. They have more, higher paid staff. They pay more for art. They pay more for production. They have more overhead costs (rent, legal, etc.) And worse, due to the way Hasbro structures itself, they don't get to claim any credit for the royalties earned by D&D licensing. So the money Wizards gets to use to offset its costs is just from product sales and DDI.

4e is also exclusively sold through middlemen. You can't buy D&D from Wizards of the Coast. Whereas Paizo earns 100% of many of its sales, Wizards only earns 40% on all of the stuff it sells. So Wizards has to sell 2.5 times as many units just to generate the same revenue as 1 unit of a Paizo product sold direct to a consumer.

If it were working financially, you wouldn't have seen Essentials. Essentials, to me, was the visible indicator that the strategy of selling the highest margin product - the core books, had failed for 4e, and that Wizards was seeking to make revenues (and profits) elsewhere. As I didn't see a huge groundswell of reaction to Essentials, I conclude that the strategy didn't work either.

Alphastream said:
I share that sentiment, and I know you want a strong overall RPG market, but to be honest what you wrote was that the lifeboat was just Pathfinder now. What role does Wizards play for Paizo? Why does Paizo need Wizards to be a strong brand?

For many people, D&D will always be synonymous with RPGs. Their opinions about the hobby will be colored, for better or for worse, by how D&D is performing. Their interest in and ability to support RPGs will be limited by that association.

D&D also has worldwide brand recognition. Pathfinder has a fraction of that brand equity, and its mostly in the US. Any market that D&D is doing well in is likely a place that Pathfinder can also thrive in. The idea that Pathfinder can open and expand a foreign market is untested.

It may be that Pathfinder has passed a phase-change, and has fully inherited the mantle of D&D, and that it is now on its own as the RPG category champion. But I don't know that to be true, and I think it's way too early to make that coronation. Pathfinder is at heart a revision of a revsion of 3.0. That makes it effectively a 12 year old game. I think a lot of innovative ideas have been added to the toolbox of TRPG design in those 12 years, and if D&D can pick them up and use them, I think it benefits everyone and that includes Pathfinder.
 

Pour

First Post
See, they should be here, now, talking and discussing D&D with us fans. That's the kind of interaction they need to show us that they're willing to do. Talk with us about D&D. Come to these forums and just talk. Be honest and talk with us. Why won't they do that? It would go a long way to fostering goodwill between WotC and us gamers. Just my opinion.

If the RPG team came to chat, I'd certainly read the conversation, but I'm really not turned off by them not participating on ENWorld- or this thread in particular. I guess, to be fair though, I'm not looking for them to prove anything to me.

I mean I don't hold it against anyone for not talking shop, theory, or speculation that pertains to the future of their business, including at least one employee of their competitor, amidst certain elements on this public forum ready and willing to twist their words and/or pounce.

I'm sure we'll hear more from everyone at WotC come the end of this month.
 

Hussar

Legend
Excellent response as always Ryan. I might disagree with you, but, damn, you make a convincing argument. :D

Just a question though:

Ryan D said:
Success for 4e was defined (by Wizards) as generating annual revenues between $50 and $100 million. By that (self-imposed) definition, it is a failure.

I'm presuming that's gross sales of course. For the past year, we've had over 50 000 DDI subscribers (it's over 65 k now). 50 000x$7=$350 k per month. That's $4.2 million per year. But, since we don't have to worry about distribution or retail, that's effectively the same as making 16 million per year. And, that's a very conservative estimate by the way, since we are only taking into account DDI subs that we can prove.

Let's not forget also, that that money comes in regularly - no several month wait from a distributer to pay, which is no small advantage as well.

The thing is, you keep comparing D&D at its absolute highest (in your own words) to now. If we move the slider to 2004 instead of 2003, the view isn't anywhere near as bad. Is it really fair to compare high bubble point D&D to any other point in time?
 

RyanD

Adventurer
I'm presuming that's gross sales of course. For the past year, we've had over 50 000 DDI subscribers (it's over 65 k now). 50 000x$7=$350 k per month. That's $4.2 million per year.

So less than 10% of the minimum goal they set for themselves. Since I doubt anyone at that meeting was going to sign off on any sales figure over $20-25 million for the physical products, I suspect they were looking for something more like 300-350k DDI subs; I.e.what a moderately successful MMO would generate.

I think it's fair to compare 2009-2011 with 2000-2003, or even 1989-1993, because we're talking about industry wide phenomenon: retail tier sizes, distributor consolidation, rise of effective direct (MMO) competition.
 

Hussar

Legend
But, again, where are you getting this 50 million/year figure? And, other than at the height, has WOTC ever actually achieved that?
 

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games
If the RPG team came to chat, I'd certainly read the conversation, but I'm really not turned off by them not participating on ENWorld- or this thread in particular. I guess, to be fair though, I'm not looking for them to prove anything to me.


Plus, I think they would probably prefer to just watch and find out what others are saying rather than steer the discussion or wind up entrenched in sidebar discussions that take away from their heavy time commitments toward the new shiny. While not everyone agrees with their direction or everything they say, they are professionals who need to focus at the top tier of their industry and spending too much time on all of the messageboards they'd need to frequent to keep all of their fans feeling like they are engaging might be a bit much to expect of them. We get the occasional liaison interface from folks like Trevor when we add defnite misinformation that needs correction.
 

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