4 Hours w/ RSD - Escapist Bonus Column

As many of you know, the Escapist has recently run a 3-part series on the past, current and future of Dungeons & Dragons. The ENWorld coverage begins here. I contributed some insights to that column and wanted to take this opportunity to expand and clarify some of my thoughts on this topic. Who Is This Guy Anyway? I [Ryan Dancey] have been involved on the business side of hobby game...

As many of you know, the Escapist has recently run a 3-part series on the past, current and future of Dungeons & Dragons. The ENWorld coverage begins here.

I contributed some insights to that column and wanted to take this opportunity to expand and clarify some of my thoughts on this topic.

GenCon2009-LisaStevens-OVC0U8.jpg

Who Is This Guy Anyway?

I [Ryan Dancey] have been involved on the business side of hobby game publishing since 1993, when I operated one of the first on-line/mail order hobby game stores, RPG International. It was through my work at RPG International that I met the team at Alderac Entertainment Group with whom I co-created the Legend of the Five Rings intellectual property, eventually spinning it out into a stand-alone company called Five Rings Publishing Group which was acquired by Wizards of the Coast in 1997 as a part of the process whereby Wizards also acquired TSR. I was at Wizards, working as a brand manager on trading card games and eventually leading the brand and business unit for Dungeons & Dragons until early in 2001 when I left to found a startup providing organized play services to 3rd party game companies, wound that down in 2003 and worked as a consultant until 2007 when I became the Chief Marketing Officer of CCP. Currently I’m the CEO of Goblinworks, a startup company developing a next-generation fantasy MMO.

I give that background (again for those of you who read the first column in this series; sorry for the repetition) just to establish the fact that I’ve been watching this industry closely for a very long time and feel I’ve got some insights worth sharing.

The Tabletop Roleplaying Game Hobby Is Contracting

Let me begin with a few simple statistics.

In 1995, when I was writing the business plan for the Legend of the Five Rings CCG, I assumed, based on the conventional wisdom at the time, that there were approximately 5,000 full line hobby gaming stores in the North American market. After arriving at Wizards of the Coast in 1997, I was surprised to discover that Wizards had been able to identify (after extensive work) only about 2,500 stores. In addition, there were about 2,500-3,000 mass-market book stores that sold some hobby gaming products; mostly TRPGs, and mostly just D&D.

Today, the best data I have been able to assemble leads me to believe that there are less than 1,000 full line hobby gaming stores left, and there may be as few as 500.

Of those mass-market bookstores, B. Dalton is gone. Waldenbooks is gone. Borders is going. Barnes & Nobel is not healthy. Today, there are only about 1,000 mass-market bookstores left (717 are Barnes & Nobel stores). That is meaningful because historically 50% of the D&D business was sold via mass-market bookstores and the loss of those stores has directly impacted D&D (and other TRPGs) significantly.

In 1994, when I attended my first GenCon, the list of exhibitors at the show included many companies that earned most (or all) of their income from selling tabletop RPGs, and who employed one or more full time TRPG designer/developers: Atlas Games, Chaosium, Dream Pod Nine, FASA, Game Designers Workshop, Heartbreaker, Hero Games, Iron Crown Enterprises, Mayfair, Palladium, R. Talsorian, Steve Jackson Games, TSR, West End Games, White Wolf, and I’m sure there’s others I’ve regretfully omitted.

In addition to those companies there was another constellation of small publishers consisting of one or two people trying to make a start in the business, working part time as TRPG designer/publishers, and buzzing around all these companies were dozens (maybe as many as a hundred) freelancers who made all or a significant part of their incomes from TRPG design work.

It’s notable that many in the industry saw the period from 1994-1999 as being fairly bad for TRPGs. The twin rise of collectible card games and the Games Workshop hobby appeared to be draining the TRPG segment of designers and of revenue. The most obvious sign of this problem was the failure of TSR’s business, leading to its acquisition by Wizards of the Coast in 1997.

I would argue that the segment actually brought on most of its woes by simply producing too much product. The proliferation of games, game worlds, and “house systems” so fragmented the market that despite indications that overall revenue remained fairly constant for TRPGs as a segment, the income earned per product and per company became so sub-divided that many (both products & companies) became unprofitable.

A second major factor at work was the consolidation of the distribution tier. When I was selling Legend of the Five Rings in 1996, we had an initial list of North American distributors of about 50. By the end of the decade, that list had shrunk to about a dozen. In fact, virtually every distributor in the market was either sold or closed between 1990 and 1999 – the people who had created the distribution network for TRPGs cashed out to the people who rebuilt it for the CCG business.

This consolidation had an unexpected effect on the TRPG publishers. Every distributor prior to the late 1990s had engaged in a practice whereby they ordered product from TRPG publishers in bulk, and held the inventory in their warehouses to fulfill retailer orders as needed. The standard industry terms were for the distributors to pay the publishers 30 days after receipt of the products. This created cashflow that sustained the publishers – they did not have to wait for every book they printed to sell, they could get the money immediately and transfer the risk of slow sales to the distribution tier. And in addition, every distributor tended to order about 10% more than they could realistically sell, as a hedge against as surprise hit. When the distribution tier consolidated, the publishers suddenly lost tremendous volume in terms of sales and cash. That 10%, multiplied by 50 distributors, was a lot of books. And the distributors that were left were run with much tighter financial policies, leading many to cease pre-paying for inventory and instead asking to hold it “on consignment” – that is, they wanted to pay for the product as they sold it, transferring the risk back to the publishers.

When I took control of the brand & business unit for TRPGs at Wizards of the Coast at the end of 1997, I asked Lisa Stevens to do a market research project to figure out what had really happened in the history of the industry and how we had (collectively) gotten ourselves into the deep hole we found ourselves in.

There were two basic answers revealed by her research.

The first was that the products the industry was producing had become too costly. The boxed set, in particular, was a huge problem. The cost of a boxed set vs. a hardcover book was often a multiple, rather than a percentage. The cost of a hardcover vs. a softcover book was also substantial. In fact, we found several high profile D&D products that were costing the company more to make than the suggested retail price of those products! This issue was endemic throughout the industry, since many publishers assumed they had to “keep up” with TSR in order to be competitive. But TSR wasn’t acting rationally, and had set its suggested retail prices based on its opinion of what the market would pay, not based on what they needed to charge in order to make a profit on the things they were publishing.

In this field, we often use a shorthand pricing system called the “Rule of 5”. Under this rule, you determine the suggested price of a product by multiplying the cost of the product by 5. Factoring in the 3-tier distribution system the industry uses, the result is that the final suggested retail price produces the following divisions:

• 20%: Cost of Goods (the cost of the production of the product, plus the wages paid to people who worked on it and any licenses or royalties)
• 20%: Gross Profit (that is, profit before subtracting all operational costs like salaries, marketing, rent, etc.) to the Publisher
• 20%: Distributor Margin (the gross profit the Distributor earns)
• 40%: Retailer Margin (the gross profit the Retailer earns)

This means that every $1 of cost increases the suggested retail price by $5. Some of the things TSR was doing were adding $10 to the cost of its products – which should have added $50 to the suggested retail prices – easily pushing many of those products into the $100 range. Instead, TSR was just losing money every time it sold one of these products. And the people who made those products never knew, because TSR’s dysfunctional management system hid that information from them. It was not until they got to Wizards of the Coast and had a chance to see the “real numbers” that they realized what had been happening.

The second issue that Lisa’s data revealed led us to our conceptual breakthrough about the business of TRPGs that shaped every decision we made when bringing the 3rd Edition of D&D to the market.

We realized that TRPGs fall into a special class of products & services that generate network effects. In our case, the effect that had the most impact was the concept of the network externality. For TRPGs, the “true value” of the product is not in the book/box that you buy. It is in the network of social connections that you share which enable you to play the game. Without that social network, the game’s value is massively reduced (it becomes literature, and there’s a small market for people who like to just read and never play TRPG content).

We began to view the market not as a series of product pyramids (a core book at the top, and an ever-broadening base of support materials produced over time), but instead as a series of human webs that overlapped and interconnected. Where those webs were strong, the products flourished. Where they were weak, the products failed. The limiting factor to the growth and strength of the TRPG market was not retail stores or shelf space, it was human brains within which these games could interconnect.

The more segmented those brains became, the weaker the overall social network was. Every new game system, and every new variant to those systems, subdivided that network further, making it weaker. Between 1993 and 1999, the social network of the TRPG players had become seriously frayed. Even if you just looked at the network of Dungeons & Dragons players you could see this effect: People self-segmented into groups playing Basic D&D, 1st Edition, 2nd Edition, and within 2nd Edition into various Campaign Settings that had become their own game variants. The effect on the market was that it became increasingly hard to make and sell something that had enough players in common that it would earn back its costs of development and production.

We looked around the industry and saw the same problem at virtually every company that had become successful: White Wolf had 5 World of Darkness games which were all slightly different, surrounded by a more diffuse constellation of games somewhat related to the Storyteller system but designed to be mutually incompatible. FASA had 4 games, none of which shared anything in common. Palladium & Steve Jackson Games both had “house systems” that they tried to use across their entire product lines, but they had ended up with the “Campaign Setting” issue that was bedeviling TSR; the variant rules at the edges of their games were creating independent game networks despite the shared DNA of the core. And we knew that inside every one of those companies they were seeing the same financial information we were seeing: Each new release was selling fewer and fewer copies, and in response, the companies were increasing the pace of releases trying to sustain planned revenues by volume of titles, not by volume of units. And it was killing everyone.

Our analysis lead us to the conclusion that in order to escape this trap, D&D at least had to try and unify its player community around one set of universally acceptable rules. And we had to cut back drastically on the number of different books we were publishing to focus spending on individual titles to drive up profitability. It was literally better to sell 7 copies of one book vs. 5 copies of two different books due to the economies of scale involved.

We hooked that train up to the engine of the Open Gaming License to help spur consolidation of game systems towards a common core, and to enable publishers who wanted to just make a great world or a cool sourcebook to do so without having to first make their own homebrew RPG (and thus fragment the market), and watched the resulting highly entertaining explosion in creativity and revenues in the market starting in 2000.

If you take that list of companies that were active at GenCon in 1994, you have to add all sorts of new names by the time you get to the GenCons of 2001/2: Alderac Entertainment Group, Decipher, Eden Studios, Fantasy Flight Games, Goodman Games, Green Ronin, Guardians of Order, Holistic Design, Kenzer & Co, Malhavoc Press, Mongoose, Necromancer, Pagan Publishing, Pinnacle Entertainment Group, and a host of others that I’m certainly omitting unintentionally. Of course many of these companies were active prior to the OGL/D20 era and many never published D20 products but they all benefited from the resurgence of D&D.

Add to that a number of “indie” RPG companies that were supporting one or two full time designer/publishers like Ron Edwards, Luke Crane, and Vince Baker. The indy RPG segment was getting good advice and learning how to be financially viable via the exchanges on the Forge and other sites dedicated to small press publishing – work that continues to today and has helped create a large number of independently published small TRPGs exploring niches that larger mass-market TRPGs would never have attempted.

Feeding all that activity was an even larger cadre of freelancers than had been in place in the 1990s – the D20 System enabled folks who would never otherwise have tried their hand at commercial design to get paid for their ideas, who joined the pre-existing ranks of freelance creative people working with the major publishers.

Let’s set the high-water mark of the TRPG industry as GenCon 2003, where Wizards released the 3.5 edition of D&D. Shortly thereafter the dominoes started to fall: Incompatibilities between 3.0 and 3.5 meant that a lot of inventory on store shelves became “obsolete” in the minds of customers, resulting in a huge drop in sales and an effort by the retailers to clear that inventory at deep discounts. With the drop in sales came a drop in orders for new products – retailers got skittish about investing more money into a market that was causing them massive headaches.

It’s possible that things could have found a natural bottom at this juncture, and that the market could have rebuilt itself on the 3.5 platform.

Unfortunately, it was never going to get that chance.

At the end of 2004, Blizzard released World of Warcraft. The MMO market which had been considered an interesting curiosity by the tabletop RPG market suddenly exploded. Whereas the previously most successful game (EverQuest) had attracted about 400,000 concurrent paying accounts at the height of its success, World of Warcraft exceeded a million players within 12 months. By the end of 2007, it had more than 5 million players in the US and Europe. An entire new market grew up around World of Warcraft as other companies rushed into the space, quickly creating offerings outside of the basic fantasy of Warcraft, including superheroes, science fiction, cyberpunk, and military history: the very foundations of the TRPG market.

Worse (for the TRPG business) the MMOs also went after young children and engaged them in ways that TRPGs weren’t. Club Penguin, in particular, was so good at getting young kids into its game that Disney bought it for $700 million, and it was reported to have more than 30 million kids playing it.

Almost overnight the TRPG industry suffered two quick body-blows. A large number of people within its network externality left their TRPG groups to focus on MMOs. And instead of receiving the benefits of an acquisition engine generating new players every year, young kids got diverted into MMOs at an age earlier than any suitable TRPG offering, likely establishing a play pattern they’ll keep through to adulthood.

The effects on the TRPG market are now quite visible. At GenCon 2011, the number of companies that were paying full time salaries for TRPG game designer/developers was reduced to a short list: Alderac Entertainment, Kenzer & Co., Fantasy Flight Games, Margaret Weiss Productions, Mongoose, Palladium, Paizo, Steve Jackson Games, White Wolf, Wizards of the Coast, and one or two smaller “indy” publishers. Missing from that list are many of the successful companies that were thriving in 1994 and 2001/2 – lost to the industry as well are the freelancer jobs that those companies used to sustain.

Some of those companies continue to publish as secondary sources of income for their owners: Green Ronin and Pinnacle Entertainment Group are great examples of this phenomenon. But that seems to me to be a very precarious place to operate - the margin for error (or accident) is razor thin.

And the contraction is continuing. Wizards of the Coast has laid off a number of designers, as has White Wolf. Hero Games announced that it is ceasing to operate with a full-time staff. Problems at Catalyst indicate that it may be a while before they’re able to sustain the TRPG businesses they inherited from FASA.

So we see the causes: Rise of MMOs, collapse of retailing, and consolidation of distribution. And we see the effects – loss of jobs, shuttering of companies, and virtually no new startup publishers in the space with a mass audience.

Where Does This End?

My opinion is that the hobby gaming industry is going to transform into a very small niche business. It will cater primarily to an aging group of players who have made TRPGs their lifetime hobbies. As those players age, they’ll need less and less support in the form of commercially produced products. They will instead seek out community support tools to help them remain in touch with their hobby even as the social network they’re directly connected to becomes ever more frayed.

In the Escapist articles I am quoted as saying that this process will be like the evolution of the model train hobby. What I could have been more clear about was that my belief in this transformation is driven not by escalating costs (as in the case with model trains) but instead by the lack of an effective acquisition engine to drive new players into the TRPG hobby, and by the continued subtraction from the TRPG social network caused by MMOs.

As neither of these problems is structural to the TRPG industry, and are both driven by external factors, there’s very little that can be done to counter them directly.

Future Paths

Digital


The first thing that a lot of folks ask for when engaged about the future of the hobby is a virtual table top. It seems kind of obvious – if MMOs are breaking the social network of TRPGs then the way to fight back is to take the TRPG to the MMO’s territory and enable distributed on-line play.

The problem is that VTTs exist, and they’re not successful. If you give people the choice between a VTT and an MMO, they pick the MMO. The VTT doesn’t solve the real problem that is that the MMO experience is simply better for a significant portion of the former TRPG social network. My opinion is that a successful and widely used VTT will remain an elusive mirage despite how much effort is poured into developing them.

That is not to say that there’s no role for digital in the future of the TRPG. Transforming the delivery mechanism of TRPGs into digital products is, I think, the likely evolutionary path. And I’m not talking about just PDFs of printed books – I’m talking about the idea of making a digital product that takes advantage of all that implies to deliver an improved tabletop experience using iPad-type technology.

Conversion to Family Games

I define a Hobby Game as one where (at least one person) spends more time preparing to play the game than actually playing it. For TRPGs that is usually the GM, but often it is players as well. This “out of game time” may be the biggest obstacle to overcome to keeping the TRPG platform competitive.

I think that commercially successful TRPGs of the future will be constructed more like a family game – something that can be unpacked, learned quickly, and played with little prep work. These games will give people a lot of the same joy of “roleplaying” and narrative control that they get from today’s Hobby Game TRPGs but with a fraction of the time investment. Wizards is already experimenting with this format, as is Fantasy Flight Games. It seems like a good bet that there is a substantially profitable business down this line of evolution.

Pathfinder

I will end this essay by talking a bit about Pathfinder and it’s role in the market.

One of the goals of the OGL and the D20 project was to ensure that no single company would ever have the ability to kill Dungeons & Dragons. TSR almost did so; near the end of its existence it had pledged the copyrights and trademarks of the D&D franchise as security against loans it could not afford to repay. Had TSR gone into bankruptcy it is likely that for at least some time, and possibly an extremely lengthy period, nobody would have had the right to publish using that IP while the bankers fought over the carcass of TSR.

The OGL/D20 project also ensured that a version of D&D would exist as of the 3rd Edition version no matter what future incarnation of D&D might be developed. Future versions of D&D would be benchmarked against that milestone, and if the market decided they did not want to switch to the new version, unlike in previous iterations where all commercial support for the previous version would be terminated, the market would be able to keep supporting the version that they preferred. This raises a high bar to future versions of D&D – you have to be so much better than the 3e game that people will voluntarily switch platforms.

Pathfinder has (obviously) become the game that represents that 3rd Edition milestone in the minds of the majority of the players, and is benefiting from the fact that it seems the number of voluntary switches to 4e was less than Wizards had hoped.

Any time a market contracts, a phenomenon is observed which is called a “flight to quality”. This means that the people who remain in a contracting market tend to concentrate their business around the most successful parts of the market, hoping that they’ll be able to ride out the collapse and make it to a future expansionary period. This is what is happening right now with Pathfinder. The social network that was coalesced by the D20 System has been inherited by Pathfinder. Even as the rest of the market is getting smaller, Pathfinder is getting bigger because its attracting all the people who remain interested in the TRPG format.

Paizo, for its part, is still trying to re-start the acquisition engine. The Beginner Box it released this year is the best intro product that the TRPG market has seen in well over a decade (maybe 2 decades). I’m certain that there are kids who got it for Christmas and are right now getting their first taste of the TRPG experience. Hopefully those kids will decide to spend at least a part of their gaming time around the tabletop rather than the MMO virtual worlds. Only time will tell.

My instinct is that Pathfinder will be the lifeboat that the long-term hobbyists will use to keep the social network from fraying past the point of no return. There’s enough people playing it and interacting both locally and virtually that I think it has the momentum it needs to sustain itself even if a total worst case scenario would unfold (Barnes & Noble also fails, and the full line hobby game store ceases to exist). Paizo is doing the right things in making its community and its market one unified whole, which is a great insurance policy against forces beyond its control.

Where Goes D&D?

I’d like to expound on this topic in more detail. Unfortunately, I’m privy to confidential information that makes that impossible at this time. I see the same things you all see – Monte Cook going back to Wizards of the Coast and a general recognition in the market that 4th Edition was not commercially successful. I think that in 2012 I’ll have a lot more to say about D&D, but that will have to wait for a future column. For now I’ll just end by saying that I hope with all my heart that the folks at Wizards of the Coast figure out how to get that franchise righted and back on track, because it would be good for the hobby in general for D&D to become a strong brand again.

--RSD / Atlanta, December 2011
 

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Ryan S. Dancey

Ryan S. Dancey

OGL Architect
I see a lot of gamers through cons and I've lived on both coasts and traveled extensively (and visited a lot of gaming stores). I just haven't seen any substantial upswing at any time in 3PP consumption. It pains me to say that, because I support the concept and I have many friends that worked on 3PP. I just don't see it as being big as a percentage of what average gamers buy. If it isn't big, is it worth promoting by Wizards?

Secondarily there is the question of benefit to Wizards. Sure, having 3PP with d20 can cause gamers to play one thing but then gravitate to D&D, but D&D is a pretty well known entity. If they are looking at a shelf in a store with 3PP, I can't believe they missed the huge shelf stacked full of D&D. Because revenue isn't gained via OGL sales, the sale of OGL needs to somehow generate a D&D sale. I'm not convinced that happens in significant enough numbers. I would love to see information one way or the other.

My third issue is whether it is critical. I disliked the d20 boom. I didn't need another bad d20 3PP adventure. And while I liked big projects like Ptolus or Iron Heroes, I am much happier when creativity leads to independent stuff like Fiasco, a return to d10 L5R, Eclipse Phase, etc. I suspect that new takes like that are better for the industry and gamers, though it is just my guess and hard to prove either way.

Here's another great Cthulhuoid insight from the software industry. A LOT of success is related to MIND SHARE. It isn't really about the bottom line. You have to have mindshare. In the software industry that comes from developers, and I suspect in a sense it is the same in the TT RPG industry. OGL created mindshare. This is how Linux succeeded. It captured the developers away from the big commercial OS developers. Any kid in his garage, any college student, anyone with a hankering to scratch an itch could get on board and with no investment but time they enjoyed spending use and hack on and build upon an open tool set. And the same thing happened that has happened with WotC too, the Microsofts of the world got cast as the big bad evil corporate guys in suites that want your money.

Look at what people are DEVELOPING for, not 4e. Again, just like with Linux, the people that get onboard and contribute that mind share are a wedge. They're evangelists, dedicated commandos that went out and set up Linux servers in the closets of the server rooms of the world when the bosses scoffed. The big guys couldn't keep it out, they couldn't get those people back. Nothing they could ever do would make those people toss away their vision and sell out their passion until finally they just won. They won because they could not lose. Mostly they just wanted freedom to do their own thing. It wasn't even a better thing, it was just pleasing to them.

WotC walked away from the mind share of the whole community AND they alienated half their customers (which might have been inevitable) but the sum total of all those mistakes was a giant mistake, maybe a disaster. The people out there developing games will certainly work for WotC for pay, and there are certainly 4e evangelists among them, but there's a big hunk of people out there in that group that just aren't on WotC's bandwagon anymore. Maybe WotC will just outlive them all and with all its money jump into some new post-digital-RPG business space that nobody else can afford to do, but they sure have given themselves a tough road to walk to get there, IF they can get there.
 

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William Ronald

Explorer
At a local game shop in NW Indiana, the owner has said that 4E stuff moves much more slowly than Pathfinder. There is much more Pathfinder material there as well.

As for the 3E boom, there was a lot of bad stuff. However, there also was a lot of good ideas. I really enjoyed some great stuff from Malhavoc Press, Green Ronin and some other publishers.

As for the future, I am not sure what may happen. Still, I am enjoying the discussion and I am glad to see that it is civil.
 


TheFindus

First Post
Ehhhhh, I don't think that would work. I'm no game industry expert, but I do know a good bit about open source software. You can certainly license code to other people, its a common business model, but I think Ryan is right to a certain extent, in the gaming world it isn't rules that are all that important, it is more the shared play style and the whole 'culture' of the game. There's just no big reason why (and probably very little money in) licensing out game engines. I can write one pretty easily and certainly the people that do it for a living can knock out core rules in their sleep. A non-free OGL wouldn't be fundamentally an 'O'GL, it would be a license to be dependent on WotC.
I think it would have been possible. For example, one of the hamstrings of the GSL in comparison to the OGL is section 10.1 "Termination". WotC can basically terminate the liscence whenever they wish to do so, which makes planning for 3rd party companies hard.
You do not have to put something like this in a liscence, though. Instead it could be a timespan of 2, 4, 5+ years, after which the liscence has to be renewed. Other clauses are also possible.

Personally I really LIKE 4e a lot, but the problem it has is cultural, in several ways. First it clearly threatened people's notion of their game. Just by existing as a different game from what they professed loyalty to before it questions that loyalty. Then WotC had the questionable (IE BAD) judgment to pretty much state that 4e was better and 3e was not cool, which just made the threat into a direct attack. That was bad.
Yeah, I guess that some of the things that were said on podcasts and in interviews were inconsiderate. On the other hand, when Dave Noonan said that he enjoys 4E much more than 3e and would rather not play 3e anymore, I know a lot of people that concurred.

You are in my opinion perfectly right when you say that 4E threatened people's notion of their game. This is what I have been saying upthread: 4E just plays differently than 3e. For me, in a better way, for others, mmmhh, not so much. 4E just is not their game.

And Paizo succeeds in winning those people.
The question that nobody seems to ask is: How many people would have left 3e without a new edition. And to be honest: I would have. I just had enough. And the people I play with had enough, too.

Then WotC overpromised and underdelivered on DDI. DDI is great, but they promised some pie-in-the-sky vision of it instead of what they could deliver. That never makes a good impression.
It really is mindboggling that they did not have DDI ready to go when they launched 4E. What a mess that was!

There was an even more insidious and in the end perhaps even worse mistake they made. They created Paizo. How much of the staff of Paizo used to work for WotC? How many of their freelancers are ex-WotC employees? Most hideous of all was a master mistake they made years ago. They gave Paizo Dragon and Dungeon AND THEY LET THE CUSTOMERS KNOW. Its one thing to use a service bureau to publish and distribute your publication, but they let Paizo interface with the customers. How do you think Paizo became a game company and had name recognition that they could leverage to put out Pathfinder? WotC made them a name that people knew, and then 'licensed' them a game system that validated a whole disaffected bunch of customers preferences, and handily made available all kinds of talent that could develop for it.
Yup, that was the second biggest mistake in my opinion, if not the biggest (together with the OGL). Whoever came up with that should not be working with WotC anymore but should be Paizo's worker of the month, the year, the decade.
And Paizo is so much better at marketing, too. For instance, how did they manage to get the free advertisement praise in the headline of the ENWorld-PF-Forum. It says: "The PATHFINDER RPG from Paizo Publishing is finally here! Discuss all aspects of the game in this forum!" That sure sounds like a really good product. Finally here! In comparison, the 4E forum states: "Ask questions about D&D 4th Edition rules, discuss the game, and post house rules and fan creations in here."
See? 4E is a game you have questions about and have to make houserules for. Whatever the "aspects" of PF are, aren't we glad, they are finally here?
That ist awesome marketing right there! They really do that well, Paizo does. And most important: they talk to their customers and actually answer questions, too. That makes the gamers feel appreciated, which is always a good thing.
WotC can learn a lot from Paizo in that regard.

4e itself, in some form, perhaps with different presentation, was basically a logical move, and they made a fine game. They just haven't understood how to please a good chunk of the community and make dumb mistakes.
No, the problem is that they designed game rules that a huge portion of the DnD players did not like, but the other, equally huge, portion really likes. Rules matter, they make the game. By making rules that people like, a designer creates the asset of a game company. You should not loose control over those rules, not for eternity.
 

Mercurius

Legend
To add on to the book/movie analogy, I do think that computer games are very different from tabletop rpgs. That being said, they can also be synergistic-as can books and movies. People (except possibly for addicts, which is a concern with WoW) generally engage in a number of diverse forms of entertainment.

My time spent playing Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Dragon Age, and so on is not a replacement for my D&D sessions. However, I learned a lot about the D&D rules and the tone of the setting from BG, and a got a lot of ideas for my campaigns from these games (and from books, movies, TV, etc.). Almost all D&D players seem to play computer games, as well as to be engaged in high-quality dramatic fiction in some form, and engaging strategy gaming in some form. I conclude that MMOs are different and perhaps even opposed to tabletop rpgs, but that modern people are entirely capable of multitasking.

So I think the Dragon Age rpg has it right, for example. It's a different experience with different rules than the cRPG. It is, however, a fairly successful and engaging tabletop rpg experience. If D&D was run competently, had quality rules and an appropriate license, and had a tie-in computer game of similar quality to Dragon Age (the first one), I think it would be doing even better than DA. That isn't happening, unfortunately.

OK, good point. This is the ideal and perhaps a reason why it would behoove WotC to develop an MMO or video game of some kind. A well-made movie would be a good thing, too, but who knows if that will ever happen (I still think Dragonlance Chronicles would be the best bet).

But the problem is that TRPGs require a lot more effort: you actually have to create something, imagine something, spend time planning sessions, etc. You can't just plug in and start playing. So the danger is that a large number of people will get "stuck" with the video games and never "graduate" to TRPGs.

However, TRPGs are also more rewarding--both socially but also imaginatively; and that is the experience that game designers should focus on, which makes TRPGs a relatively unique hobby. In some ways I think the difference between CRPGs and TRPGs is like fast food vs. a well-prepared gourmet meal; the latter doesn't have the quick-fix junk food factor, its tastes are more subtle and complex. But once you develop a palate, you start appreciating gourmet food and won't be satisfied with fast food any longer (at least not on a regular basis!).
 

Regarding all the talk of VTTs, and not knowing a thing about them, my question is this: does using a VTT lock you into a specific rule system? Or are VTTs malleable enough to support any edition - or any RPG, for that matter?

Getting kids into RPGs is one thing, but I suggest another place to look is college campuses. Perhaps an enterprising RPG company might want to look into sponsoring (even in a very small way) a gaming club on each campus?

Lan-"if I buy online I'm just going to print it out anyway, so why not buy it on paper in the first place"-efan

So much to respond to here!

Almost every VTT is flexible enough for any system that uses dice (I'm not sure about other resolution mechanics like cards).

Some have built in character sheets and such for specific systems with autocalculators, so they "lean" toward a system.


But, overall, pick your favorite system and any vtt, and you're pretty good to go, at least from the VTTs I've seen.




RE: college...ABSOLUTELY!

More money than kids/teens, more time than people out of college, and an interest in discovering new things.
 

Ahnehnois

First Post
But the problem is that TRPGs require a lot more effort: you actually have to create something, imagine something, spend time planning sessions, etc. You can't just plug in and start playing. So the danger is that a large number of people will get "stuck" with the video games and never "graduate" to TRPGs.
Hopefully introductory tie-in products are the bridge to get non-D&D people into tabletop gaming. If D&D doesn't do it, there are certainly other brands out there that are trying. If we ever saw "WoW the rpg", that would be something (nonwithstanding that particular 4e criticism).

However, TRPGs are also more rewarding--both socially but also imaginatively; and that is the experience that game designers should focus on, which makes TRPGs a relatively unique hobby. In some ways I think the difference between CRPGs and TRPGs is like fast food vs. a well-prepared gourmet meal; the latter doesn't have the quick-fix junk food factor, its tastes are more subtle and complex. But once you develop a palate, you start appreciating gourmet food and won't be satisfied with fast food any longer (at least not on a regular basis!).
You'll get no argument from me there. I kind of liken it to the difference between 'Law & Order' and 'The Wire'; once you start watching the latter, something deeper and more reality-based, it's hard to go back to the former (and indeed my games take heavily from The Wire, BSG, and variety of other "it's not TV" TV shows).

To further that analogy, there was a point not so long ago when reality TV hit and quality scripted television seemed to be dying out; it just didn't make monetary sense to produce a really good television show. But then a number of excellent cable networks started putting out great dramatic television, and people frustrated with the big networks flocked to them. The networks have somewhat increased their committment to scripted television since just to compete, but as they're limited in what they can show, cable now has a new niche that isn't going away. Hopefully something similar happens with D&D and its 'flight to quality'.
 

S'mon

Legend
By making rules that people like, a designer creates the asset of a game company. You should not loose control over those rules, not for eternity.

That's kinda tough then, since rules are specifically excluded from copyright protection. :) Apart from the very occasional patent, rules are essentially not protected by Intellectual Property law.
 

TheFindus

First Post
That's kinda tough then, since rules are specifically excluded from copyright protection. :) Apart from the very occasional patent, rules are essentially not protected by Intellectual Property law.
I know, but the text of the rules can be protected. Plus iconic names. And that makes all the difference. Otherwise, why the need to design an OGL in the first place? It is to give 3rd party publishers that security.
 


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