WotC Seeks Unity with a New Edition

talok55 · Mar 1, 2012

Exactly. 4E was most definitely not a success, at least not a commercial success, or WotC wouldn't even be seriously contemplating another edition, much less already announced it. It may have been a success in that some people liked it and enjoyed playing it, but WotC sure doesn't think of it as a success. The main thing it succeed in doing was sharply dividing the D&D community and losing D&D's place as the number one RPG to Pathfinder. No wonder WotC wants a reboot that caters to fans of older editions. I can be pretty sure that 5E will not be a streamlined or evolved 4E, at least not the core of it. For one thing 4E can easily be considered the red headed step child of editions. It was divisive, had horrible PR, wasn't commercially viable, and was very short lived. For another thing, all of the playtest reports we've heard sound a lot like earlier editions with the possible inclusion of warlock and warlord classes being the only 4E like thing I've heard of.

mudbunny · Mar 1, 2012

Aehrlon said:
IF 4E was so great, Hasbro would not be abandoning it like they are.

Companies don't abandon products only because they are not doing great. They also abandon them because they think that they can do better. Obviously WotC (and Hasbro) think that D&D Next can do better than 4E did. Whether it will or not is a different question.

FreeXenon · Mar 1, 2012

What he said.
Thanks for jumping in mudbunny!

mudbunny said:
Companies don't abandon products only because they are not doing great. They also abandon them because they think that they can do better. Obviously WotC (and Hasbro) think that D&D Next can do better than 4E did. Whether it will or not is a different question.

Aehrlon · Mar 1, 2012

FreeXenon said:
They are getting rid of 4e just like 1E/2E/3E were "gotten rid of". A new edition essentially requires moving on. It is kind of part of the process.

Yeah, obviously everyone understands that much; my point was, Hasbro ditched 4E in only 4 years... that has to be some sort of a record. All previous editions were given 10+ years, or darn near (in the case of 3E). And don't get me wrong, I have played 4E a bunch and have had fun. There are definitely some good things there... though I confess rolling to hit with area spells as a Wizard was a little hard to take, LOL!

FreeXenon · Mar 1, 2012

mubunny's quote I think covers the first part of your post it pretty good.

Yea, 4E's way of handling wizard's aoe spells is quite a departure from previous editions. I think is significantly more efficient (having only 1 die roll instead of 2 per enemy).

Aehrlon said:
Yeah, obviously everyone understands that much; my point was, Hasbro ditched 4E in only 4 years... that has to be some sort of a record. All previous editions were given 10+ years, or darn near (in the case of 3E). And don't get me wrong, I have played 4E a bunch and have had fun. There are definitely some good things there... though I confess rolling to hit with area spells as a Wizard was a little hard to take, LOL!

mudbunny · Mar 1, 2012

Aehrlon said:
Yeah, obviously everyone understands that much; my point was, Hasbro ditched 4E in only 4 years... that has to be some sort of a record. All previous editions were given 10+ years, or darn near (in the case of 3E).

It's not just how well (or not well) the game did that you need to take into account. You also need to look at the RPG environment. The explosion of pdf bookstores as well as the emergence of Pathfinder (not to mention Dresden Files and Warhammer 3.0 (I think that was the edition)) onto the scene changed it such that the point at which the tail of the curve after which a product becomes no longer profitable gets pushed back substantially.

(Ignore the data, but the point at which it is no longer profitable may have gone from 8 to 5)

Vertical axis is % of maximum sales
Horizontal axis is time

flyinghitcher · Mar 13, 2012

Unfortunately this appears to be simply a publicity stunt, as Admin are being very bias in there removal of content. Hasbro own monopoly, and it is a sad tale of an open game being developed for financial education, until it then got copyrighted and the development has since been very stale. D&D may well fall foul to the same fate. It seems the D&D next forum admin is content with throwing away experienced input if it so happens to disagree with there PR.

Aehrlon · May 13, 2012

mudbunny said:
It's not just how well (or not well) the game did that you need to take into account. You also need to look at the RPG environment

Point taken. Actually, there are a number of factors that affect how well (or not) a particular version of the game does. Besides the ones you mentioned, Retro-Clones may have taken a bite of the the D&D Next market. Moving forward, if they can satisfy new customers & 3ED/4ED warriors adequately, they very well might do well on both fronts. One fact remains: the best predictor of future behavior is PAST BEHAVIOR. That being said, I'm going to remain optimistic despite how releases & production has been handled in the past... which was poorly IMHO. With the open player/fan play-testing coming up, it's a good indication the new game is going to be handled differently. So maybe the glass IS half full...

Flyinghitcher, when you wrote "removal of content" are you talking about 4E material on the WotC D&D website or something else? On throwing away input, not sure what you mean... are you talking about Monte leaving (covered in other threads) or something else?
http://www.enworld.org/forum/news/3...st-no-longer-working-d-d-next-updated-34.html

flyinghitcher · May 14, 2012

Aehrlon, I'm egotistically talking about my own input. Looks to me like Monte Cook has made a good decision. I think you will find any attempt to satisfy 3ED/4ED warriors adequately will be impossible if the forum admin take sides - which to me they clearly have. It's impossible to talk about this on there forums if they remove content on the subject. Even worse when they one sided remove content which in my case they have. Even the sticky topics in there forum are quite clearly biased. Encouraging positive feedback on the subjects they like.

talok55 · May 15, 2012

mudbunny said:
Companies don't abandon products only because they are not doing great. They also abandon them because they think that they can do better. Obviously WotC (and Hasbro) think that D&D Next can do better than 4E did. Whether it will or not is a different question.

You actually expect us to believe that they are going to do something as risky and expensive as a new edition just because they think they can "do better"? We both know that is not happening. The only reason they would do a new edition is if the current one isn't making enough money.

WotC Seeks Unity with a New Edition

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