Minor 5th Edition Updates for Monday, 16 January, 2012

thzero · Jan 16, 2012

Well you can be just as tactical in all the editions; I've just seen that people don't really use them very much.

Truename said:
I agree. My game style is the same for everyone at the table: 4e's complex tactical combat.

Truename said:
Yeah, I'm not sure how that will play out. I never played 3e, so 4e's out-of-combat rules seem very similar to 1e to me. The DM describes a situation, the players describe how their characters respond, the DM asks for an ability check or skill check when he thinks it necessary. It's a simple system and I gather 3e had more complexity. (How exactly does that work? I have trouble imagining a mechanical solution to out-of-combat scenarios.)

1e in the core books didn't have skills, but the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide and Wilderness Survival Guide actually did bring skills to the 1e table

Nonetheless, what you described is essentially what happens in 1e (with skills), 2e, 3X.

Lwaxy · Jan 16, 2012

thzero said:
For me the big thing is going to be, can I take my 3.X materials and use it with the new game...

Exactly. It must be compatible (for me that now includes PF as that is what most groups play now). If I can't use what I already have there is no point.

catsclaw227 · Jan 16, 2012

Henry said:
Keeping in mind that "1E style" can mean different things to different players, in my games, 4E style is closer to 1E style (or more accurately, Basic D&D style) than 3E was, for sure. I ran a Keep on the Borderlands conversion once for 4E that had just as much wheeling and dealing with the monsters as it had just kicking down doors and taking stuff. A D&D kobold and a kobold minion really don't look very different to a fighter pasting the floors with them using a mace - and those traps don't care if the fighter can "tide of iron" or not.

This has been my experience as well. We've got mixed Essentials and AEDU classes at the table and the game feels more like 1e than my old 3.x game ever did. Granted, I still enjoy a good 3.x game - as long as I don't have to DM over 14th level or so.*

I have converted 1e modules for my 4e game and converted 3.x/Pathfinder adventures as well. The 1e ones were much easier, though as the 3.x/PF stat blocks were much harder to match up and balance properly.

*Personally, I got frustrated when my ultra-cool NPC that took me 2 hours to stat and gear up never got to use 2/3rds of his spells and abilities and got pasted by round 3 or so. I also struggled with challenging the players when I had to wing an encounter because they did something I wasn't prepared for. I either cheesed out with a monster/NPC that was too powerful, or I didn't even challenge them at all. I know... my fault, but it still sucked, and it could happen to any competent DM.

Kzach · Jan 16, 2012

broghammerj said:
3. I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea of how a 4E tactile minis enthusiast can play with a 1E grognard who never drew out combat. As a DM you either have to map out combat or not. 4E wizards wants an area of effect power but doesn't know where the 1E fighter is because he likes abstract combat and is not on the map???

Why is it that everyone seems to forget (or are they just too young to know?) that 1e had movement rates in INCHES.

And a REAL grognard isn't a 1e player. A real grognard thinks 1e is an abomination of TRUE D&D, which started in a box.

Kzach · Jan 16, 2012

There are two problems I foresee with this 'system':

1) Nobody, not even someone who prefers a 'simple' character is going to enjoy sitting at a table with their simple character who can do X and Y, next to a player with a character who can do the whole alphabet. People will resent that player having more options and taking more time at the table, regardless of how 'balanced' it is (which is another issue entirely given how arbitrary and subjective 'balance' is).

2) You simply can't reconcile the fundamental personality differences and conflicts within the D&D community because they have absolutely NOTHING to do with system and EVERYTHING to do with people being people. You'd have better luck getting a bunch of Hamas militants to sit down and play a drinking game with a bunch of Mossad agents.

catsclaw227 · Jan 16, 2012

Kzach said:
Why is it that everyone seems to forget (or are they just too young to know?) that 1e had movement rates in INCHES.

But an "inch" was equivalent to 10 feet. (If I recall correctly)

And turns were 10 minutes, rounds were 1 minute (where you got one action) and that was broken down into 6 second "segments" that had some effect on initiative or when your spell can be case. (And, I believe, if you used weapon speed rules and a few other odd mechanics).

There are ways to reconcile this and I don't think that the differences are a big deal to the overall goal.

Kzach said:
And a REAL grognard isn't a 1e player. A real grognard thinks 1e is an abomination of TRUE D&D, which started in a box.

I've been playing since 1978 and I look at 1e AD&D just as much as TRUE D&D as I did 2e, 3.x and 4e.

broghammerj · Jan 16, 2012

Kzach said:
Why is it that everyone seems to forget (or are they just too young to know?) that 1e had movement rates in INCHES.

And a REAL grognard isn't a 1e player. A real grognard thinks 1e is an abomination of TRUE D&D, which started in a box.

Well for one, I haven't played it in about 20 yrs.....but more importantly the game didn't depend on mapping. A game like 3e and more so 4e do. However, you point is well taken.

Aberzanzorax · Jan 16, 2012

So, as @Truename aptly pointed out...

THE GAME will be (if they meet their goals) able to provide a 1e through 4e experience (depending on what the DM/group seeks), and each player will be able to mod (within that group experience) to their own tastes.

It seems like people are getting lost in thinking about how a given game/table/session/campaign will work...and forgetting that 1e players might enjoy forming a whole group with 5e and playing in their style...and that 4e players might enjoy forming a whole group with 5e and playing in their style....

...and the 2e group that has one friend they've always played with...and lost when 4e came out might just get him back (with 2e style and 4e mods for his own guy).

Jeffrey · Jan 17, 2012

While I am hoping that they can do what they say, I just cannot see how they can accomplish everything that they want in one system.

On the other hand, people should take my record as a Game Designer (0 attempts, 0 successes) into account in considering the above. B-)

Jeffrey · Jan 17, 2012

Kzach said:
And a REAL grognard isn't a 1e player. A real grognard thinks 1e is an abomination of TRUE D&D, which started in a box.

Ran across a blog post yesterday where someone claimed "Grognard" status because they started playing 2nd edition in the 80's.

I thought to myself: "Kid, I have polyhedrons older than you."