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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Mona View Post
    Heroes & Monsters contains _zero_ common "heroes". The closest are the Watch Guard and Watch Officer, which we felt people would want multiples of. Beyond that it's stuff like orcs and skeletons and what have you. No good guys.

    You can see a list of the entire set by rarity here.

    --Erik Mona
    Publisher
    Paizo Publishing
    I'm glad to hear that and again appreciate the response. I love miniatures, started my gaming career with Grenadier sets, and have collected since.

    I'm sold, and will open my case tomorrow and then drop in with my impressions. Thanks for being interested in the consumer Erik. I hope we are leaving useful feedback for you to consider.

    Aluvial

 

  • #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Aluvial View Post
    Heroes should be uncommon to rare mainly because they, and their NPC counterparts are singly used in most games. You never need 12 paladins.
    You can never have enough paladins
    -Easy Come, Easy Go

  • #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf the Stout View Post
    I have to disagree with you in regards to complaints about size difference to DDM being unfair.

    Paizo/WizKids would have known and expected that a large segment, if not the majority, of the people buying Pathfinder minis would also own DDMs. As such, for their customers to get the most use out of them, the Pathfinder minis should be scaled so that they can be used interchangeably with DDMs.

    How long has DDM been out of production? Guys like you and I probably do have plenty of them, but Pathfinder isn't completely aimed at people like you and I. Hence the Beginner Box.


    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf the Stout
    If they decide to make their minis a slightly different scale a few different things could happen. People who own DDMs and are considering getting Pathfinder minis will:

    a. Buy Pathfinder minis, use their DDMs and Pathfinder minis together and just ignore the differences in scale between the 2 lines.
    b. Buy Pathfinder minis and get rid of/not use their DDMs.
    c. Not buy Pathfinder minis and just stick with their DDMs.

    Given that the DDM line has been around for many years, has a much larger range of figures and represent a significant sunk cost for many people, I would expect that if the difference in scale was noticeable enough many people would go with option C.

    This obviously results in lower sales of Pathfinder minis, so it is definitely in Paizo/WizKids interest to ensure that their minis are the same scale (or as close as possible) to DDMs.

    Olaf the Stout

    Firstly, the size/scale issues have been mentioned and supposedly will be corrected in future sets. I trust that future sets will have better scaling and better paint jobs. Harbringer had some awful scales, sculpts and paintjobs too.

    Secondly, I seriously doubt most people will go with your answer "C", since the initial production run sold out of manufacturer's stock in only a week and a day. Personally I fall under "A", and I think many other "old timers" do too. But I would add a "D" category: people new to the hobby looking for minis to supplant/suppliment the pawns from their Beginner Box.

  • #54
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    You never need 12 paladins.
    Arthur and Charlemagne might have a different opinion on that...
    IAAL...and an MBA. No, really!
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  • #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Mona View Post
    What I meant is the thickness of the plastic, the bendiness, if you will. WizKids has a way of altering this within the same mini, so that some parts of the mini are more rigid than others. Getting this wrong means droopy swords, bendy bases, etc.

    --Erik
    Hey congratulations on selling out the first run!

    I know it's a plasticizing agent that determines the rigidness; it's the same thing which often determines the recycling number of our plastic recyclables. If only we could use the term "plasticity" to refer to it, but that's been taken.

  • #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormonu View Post
    Obviously, it's not that great a concern since they "sold out".

    The DDM line had some real problems with size creep over the line. There's some halflings that near the end of the line that could have been used as human figures in the Harbinger set.
    Maybe, maybe not. They may have not produced many minis for their first run. That could be why they sold out.

    Or it may have been a case of many DDM collectors giving them a go to see what they were like (especially since they don't have DDM to spend their money on any more). After buying the first set and finding that they don't match well with DDM's they may decide not to buy any future sets.

    Alternatively, they may have produced a huge amount of minis and been more successful beyond their wildest expectations. Without us knowing the numbers we're just wildly speculating, not that wild speculation isn't fun!

    In regards to size creep with DDMs, I am fully aware that there was issues with that in the line. For example, the Guard of Mithral Hall dwarf mini is a prime example of a sculpt being too big. It was so big that I know many people repainted it as a statue because it just looked ridiculously large next to the other Dwarf minis in the line.

    WotC was criticized for those issues and I fully expect Paizo/WizKids to be too. The fact that they have admitted some minis have these issues and will be trying to correct it for future sets is definitely a step in the right direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twowolves View Post
    How long has DDM been out of production? Guys like you and I probably do have plenty of them, but Pathfinder isn't completely aimed at people like you and I. Hence the Beginner Box.

    Firstly, the size/scale issues have been mentioned and supposedly will be corrected in future sets. I trust that future sets will have better scaling and better paint jobs. Harbringer had some awful scales, sculpts and paintjobs too.

    Secondly, I seriously doubt most people will go with your answer "C", since the initial production run sold out of manufacturer's stock in only a week and a day. Personally I fall under "A", and I think many other "old timers" do too. But I would add a "D" category: people new to the hobby looking for minis to supplant/suppliment the pawns from their Beginner Box.
    I know that the Pathfinder minis aren't solely aimed at DDM collectors. I'm sure that Paizo will get quite a few people that have never bought pre-painted or unpainted minis before that will give these a go, simply because they really like most or all of what Paizo produces (even though this is technically a WizKids product).

    Having said that, in terms of scale, some of these people may buy a few boxes or bricks of minis. From my experience DDM collectors tend to go in pretty large to these sorts of things, buying enough to either get 1 of every mini in the set or, in some cases, multiples of every mini in the set.

    I know that many DDM collectors may have decided that enough is enough (I own a few thousand DDMs and I am close to, if not in, that camp). However, I expect that there are many others that figure they don't have anything better to spend their money on now that DDMs aren't being made so they will buy these instead.

    I guess time will tell as to what option most people fall in. However, even if there aren't a huge amount of people in option C, it still makes little sense to me to deliberately make the minis of a different scale to DDMs (not that I think Paizo/WizKids have done that on purpose).

    So I guess what I am saying is that getting the Pathfinder minis on the same scale as DDMs will only increase sales further, which can't be a bad thing from a Paizo/WizKids perspective.

    Olaf the Stout
    Finished running my group through the SCAP, now I'm running them through the AoW AP

  • #57
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    I could be really out to lunch here, but with a couple of exceptions (already noted in this thread), I think the majority of the Heroes & Monsters minis _are_ on the same scale as DDMs.

    This is more an issue of fine tuning and calibration than it is a major catastrophic flaw in the line, or something. The two lines are the same scale. Each line has a mini here and there that is a little out of scale relative to the others (and we're trying to improve that with each release), but I don't want people to get the impression that the line has major scaling issues, because that impression would be false.

    --Erik

  • #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Mona View Post
    I could be really out to lunch here, but with a couple of exceptions (already noted in this thread), I think the majority of the Heroes & Monsters minis _are_ on the same scale as DDMs.

    This is more an issue of fine tuning and calibration than it is a major catastrophic flaw in the line, or something. The two lines are the same scale. Each line has a mini here and there that is a little out of scale relative to the others (and we're trying to improve that with each release), but I don't want people to get the impression that the line has major scaling issues, because that impression would be false.

    --Erik
    To be fair to you Erik, I would like to state that I am yet to buy any of the pre-painted Pathfinder minis (I have several of the unpainted metal ones). The differences in scale that I was commenting on were based on comments from others that have bought the pre-painted Pathfinder minis and noted that some minis differed in size to their DDM counterparts.

    Twowolves comment defending the sizing differences of some Pathfinder minis to their DDM counterparts seemed to indicate that the size differences were deliberate, not accidental. I hope that this isn't the case, as I imagine most people would prefer consistent sizing between the 2 lines.

    Olaf the Stout
    Last edited by Olaf the Stout; Thursday, 26th January, 2012 at 01:17 AM. Reason: Added more explanation
    Finished running my group through the SCAP, now I'm running them through the AoW AP

  • #59
    Erik's comment is a fair one. There is one significant scaling issue (the Troll) and maybe one other less troublesome one (the Dire rat, which isn't a significant problem and could be seen as a "feature" and not a "bug"). For the most part (38/40) -- they got it overwhelmingly right. And that would be fair, imo.

    Paizo and Wizkids have committed to deal with those few scaling issues in the Rise of the RuneLords set to ensure they don't resurface. And yes, from time to time it happened in the DDM line, too.
    .Robert

    Co-Host of (the ENnie Award Winning!) Chronicles: Pathfinder Podcast


  • #60
    Well, I don't buy randomized boosters, but I'm certainly picking up some of these on the secondary market. The medusa especially is awesome and I'm grabbing five, plus assorted hero types. The lich and the succubus both make me drool, but the price on those is a bit too steep for me to quite justify it at the moment.

    There is no fluff. There is no crunch. There are only rules of varying precision.

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